CO885-(19-20) — Page 255

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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Reference :-

C.O. 885

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His Excellency thought this might be done if they were able to trace several cases into a district. His unofficial members were/quite right in saying that this was hardly "English." Now they were saying it was English. The Collective Punishment Ordinance was only to be applied under very special circumstances. It was outside the Courts, and had to be referred to the Imperial Government. He himself had not the authority to apply it; and the Government could not impose a collective punishment without the knowledge of the Imperial Government. He thought that was a very wise provision.

Mr. Cameron mentioned that at the present time if any cattle were stolen the Government at Kericho would only provide one or two boys. They proposed that with the native stock sold out of the native reserves all the money should be put aside to secure a large number of natives to try and pick up the trail of stolen cattle. With so few boys available there was no chance of tracing stolen cattle, and no money was put aside for the purpose.

His Excellency said that this might be considered under policing.

Mr. Hopcraft said that personally he agreed with Dr. Atkinson that they could not possibly have a Pass Law in this country.

"Mr. Hill did not think the Pass Law would help to catch a thief, and it was a case of catching him. There was no difficulty about identification: the difficulty was to catch him.

His Excellency thought that identification could be established by a system of finger prints. It would make easier the identification of criminals, and that system was becoming more widespread.

Mr. Hill was of opinion that a native who was once a stock thief was always a stock thief. He thought such natives should be branded

it might do some good.

stock thief," and then

He did not believe in partial Mr. Watkins said he was afraid that unless the Pass Law could be applied effectively it would be useless to apply it at all. application; unless complete it would be an utter failure.

He was very strongly

of opinion that it could be applied, and a great many people in his district thought it should be applied, and they had repeatedly told him to bring the matter before He was of opinion, however, that unless it could be properly and the Governor. effectively applied some other means should be devised.

He quite In reply to a question by His Excellency as to whether Mr. Watkins's people had mentioned the question of cost, Mr. Watkins said they had not. agreed that the issuing of passes would mean a great deal of work for the District, Commissioners, and he thought they would require some special machinery for the purpose. If that could not be done it would be better to leave it alone altogether.

Mr. Stanning did not think there was a great majority in favour of the Pass

Law.

His Excellency thought that probably stock farmers would be more in favour of the Pass Law than agriculturists.

Mr. Anderson said that townsmen were more in favour of it than anybody. His Excellency pointed out that it was possible to regulate towns, but they were trying to deal with the country. It would be quite possible to apply the Pass Law to a town.

Mr. Tarlton was of opinion that the Pass Law at the present time would He did not believe it would prevent stock thefts very he quite impracticable. materially.

(2) Branding-Referring to the question of branding, Mr. MacDonald said that he considered branding had checked thieving to a very large extent, and he thought branding was very popular with settlers. Still, a few had not gone in for it, and this put facilities in the way of stealing. He would be inclined to say now that branding should be made compulsory as far as cattle were concerned. With regard to sheep, it was much more difficult to introduce branding. If all the sheep were merinos they could be registered. With graded sheep it was most difficult to do that, and branding on the nose had not had very good results in Australia; but, as regards cattle, branding had checked thieving, and he thought If people did not brand their cattle it was a it should be made compulsory. temptation to the natives to go and steal.

In reply to a question by Dr. Atkinson, as to whether the cattle which had been stolen lately were branded, Mr. Cameron said that some were branded with the Government brand and some were not. The natives would kill and eat branded cattle, but there was always a chance of getting away unbranded cattle.

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Mr. MacDonald enquired whether the cattle stolen from Mr. Watkins were branded.

Mr. Watkins replied that the unbranded were taken and the branded left. He did not think branding should be made compulsory. Branding was effective to a certain degree as regards thieving.

In reply to a question by His Excellency as to why Mr. Watkins was against compulsory branding, he (Mr. Watkins) said that he did not think it could be done in a young country like East Africa, as farmers would not care to go to the trouble and expense of branding. He thought, however, that in their own interests they should go in for branding.

Mr. MacDonald said he understood the question had been raised at a meeting of the Naivasha Pastoralists Association, when a resolution was passed asking that branding should be made compulsory.

Mr. Anderson thought that if Government were to make branding compulsory they should go further and get every farmer to keep a stock book showing every- thing on their property. If Government would allow the inclusion of stock as part of development he did not think there would be any objection to compulsory branding.

Mr. Hopcraft said he had seen cattle taken down to the Masai with all sorts of brands on them, a great many bearing the Government brand as having passed the serum test. Consequently, if branding was made compulsory, and cattle were taken down into the Masai or any other country, what help were they going to get? The natives had got their own brands.

Mr. MacDonald pointed out that the percentage of branded cattle which had been stolen was very small. Many of the settlers he had spoken to on the subject were in favour of branding.

Mr. Anderson did not think the Home Government would agree to compulsory Could branded stock be considered branding. They ought to bear that in mind.

an improvement of property?

Captain Riddell pointed out that in the case of sheep every sheep farmer would require to have his own station mark on the ear. Sheep, however, would not take 'the station mark.

Mr. MacDonald did not think that this question should be admitted.

Mr. Watkins thought it would be a very good thing if the branding of stock was to be considered an improvement of property.

Mr. Cameron referred to the smudging and blotching of brands. sometimes kept in close proximity to a fire the heat of which was sufficient to blotch a brand.

Cattle were

His Excellency did not think it would be very difficult to tell the difference between a fire brand and a smudged brand.

Mr. Hill said he understood that cattle sold to natives had to be cross-branded. Mr. MacDonald replied that under the Ordinance the brand must be reversed. Mr. Hill did not think this was carried out with regard to Masai cattle sold at auction. As regards himself, he did not like a great number of brands, but he thought that it was the duty of each farmer to brand his cattle.

Mr. MacDonald mentioned that the Argentine and one of the Australian States had adopted compulsory branding. It was not yet made compulsory in the Transvaal. He thought it was generally admitted that the branding of cattle helped to check stock thieving. He thought settlers should go a little out of their way and go in for branding. They should try and put as many difficulties as possible in the way of thieving. They must assist Government if they wanted Government to assist them.

He also referred to the Mr. Tarlton was in favour of compulsory branding, whether they were allowed to consider stock as an improvement of property or not.

He thought that if experience of Queensland, which country had adopted compulsory branding, the result being that illicit thieving of cattle had been put down. they were to get compulsory branding of stock belonging to natives as well as whites it would go a long way towards preventing thefts.

His Excellency thought that Mr. Tarlton was putting forward a very fair proposal. It would appeal not only to the Government here but to the Government at home. It would be rather ridiculous to have branding amongst European and not amongst native stock.

Mr. Hill asked whether natives would be adverse to branding.

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