CO885-(16-18) — Page 731

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

tut C.O.885

18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

Thirteenth Day. 8 May 1907.

NAVAL DEFENCE.

(Sir

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necessity require to continue by direct subsidy or an increased subsidy which we are quite willing to give for a continued attachment to the Navy proper which we consider is so important to us.

I have had the opportunity, owing to the courtesy of the First Lord of the Admiralty of discussing matters with him since we last met, and I askedl Joseph Ward.) for some information to be furnished to me regarding submarines. This I received late last night, and only had an opportunity of looking at it since I arrived at the Conference this morning. I have read the statement this morning with considerable interest. goes without saying that I am not prepared--in fact I mentioned it to Lord Tweedmouth when speaking to him-to commit the Colony of New Zealand to any departure in the way of a suggested submarine service without having had the opportunity of conferring with my colleagues and in turn, any great departure if we contem- plated making it, we would require to submit to our Parliament and have the ratification of our Parliament upon before assent by me at this Conference could be by any means directly or indirectly implied. I should be only too glad, however, to have the aspect of it placed before me, and when I have had an opportunity of discussing, placed before my colleagues with a view to our considering whether the suggestion of a submarine service, pure and simple, without the attendant surroundings of a local navy, as an alternative to an increased subsidy, could then be taken up by New Zealand as a part of the great organisation of the defence of the Empire as a whole, and that portion of which is New Zealand especially.

If the

want to make the position clear so that the Admiralty, who are no doubt better posted upon these matters than I am, may know. We have 14 towns on the sea coast. The majority of them are very important towns. There is not one of them that is more than 9 miles at the outside from the ocean or to the port unless it be the city of Dunedin, which to the ocean itself, irrespective of the means of ingress and egress that ships have to take, is only 5 or 6 miles away from the Pacific. Though Lord Tweedmouth has not to me personally, or at the Conference, given any lead or indication as to what the Admiralty favours-whether it is the organisation of a local submarine service, and the responsibility being taken upon the shoulders of Australia and New Zealand-I have had no indication personally whether that method of dealing with the Colonies is more acceptable to the Admiralty than the continuation from the New Zealand point of view of a subsidy. I wish to add that from my point of view it would be of considerable importance for us to know what the Admiralty itself favours. Admiralty were to say to New Zealand that they believed as a matter of defence of that portion of the Empire that the system we have been party to for so many years has, as the result of changes in the scientific development of these submarines, become to some extent obsolete, or not so valuable, and make the suggestion of a submarine force that would weigh considerably with the Government and the people in arriving at a decision as to the best course to follow in future, I think myself that the opinion of the Admiralty would be valuable. I recognise Lord Tweedmouth has taken a completely impartial staud, and allowed it to be at the voluntary action of the Colonies themselves to elect whether they go in for the subsidy or the submarine defence. In that respect, if I may be allowed to say so, it is particularly fair to the Colonies, and will be appreciated by New Zealand to be allowed from the standard of self-government to do as we think proper. We would like to have the opportunity of ascertaining what is the preference of the Admiralty in this suggested system of local defence for Australia as against the one for New Zealand for the continuation of a subsidy.

Mr. Deakin has already, for his country, said Lord Tweedmouth has acted with a generous consideration for the views put forth by Australia, having

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assented to their proposal by stating he was prepared to agree to whichever Thirteenth Day.

8 May 1907. course they desired. That brings up the question of the position of New Zealand as one of the contributors to the agreement, whether we are going

(Sir

Joseph Ward.)

to hold Great Britain and Australia to that agreement, or set them free to do NAVAL DEFENCE. at an early date what they think is essential and proper for them. I can only say at once I am perfectly certain both my colleagues and the Parliament of my country, if the First Lord of the Admiralty, who is responsible for the general government of the sea defences of the Empire itself, is willing to meet Australia in that respect, we would not adopt a dog-in-the-manger policy, but I think would favourably consider the cancelment of the agree ment, with a view to allowing Australia to have a free hand with the Admiralty, and New Zealand also, on its own line, to have a free hand to carry out what it considers is best for our particular circumstances, in order to make the position easy of settlement, as between the Admiralty and the Commonwealth of Australia, I shall be only too glad to recommend it to my colleagues, and to recommend it to my Parliament. In any case it would take some little time to give effect to the change that Australia wants from that point of view, and long before any inconvenience could arise no doubt the Parliament of our country would give expression to what I am now voicing here as its representative. New Zealand as a country has been desirous of giving upon the basis of the contribution of Australia its fair proportion. The six States of Australia gave an average of a little over 33,0001. each, and originally as fixed the contribution of a colony like New Zealand was fairly proportionate to the individual contributions of the States of the great Commonwealth of Australia, and we paid our 40,0007, a year. I am quite certain New Zealand, if required to, under altered proposals that may be suggested, with a view to cementing the defence of the Empire as

a whole, would be willing to increase its contribution.

I thank Lord Tweedmouth for the information he has furnished to me.

I am exceedingly obliged to the Admiralty. The whole matter will receive the fullest consideration of my colleagues and myself at the earliest possible date.

Dr. SMARTT: Lord Elgin, and gentlemen, I am extremely obliged to Lord Tweedmouth for the statement he has made (a statement which I think will be welcomed by the people in Cape Colony, and certainly by the Naval Volunteers) that he has kindly consented to agree to meet the request that on the passage of the Bill submitted to the Admiralty the title "Royal" should be attached to them.

I think, on the first meeting we had with the First Lord of the Admiralty, he stated it was the intention of the Admiralty, as far as possible, to deal with each Colony on the lines of the particular circumstances appertaining to that Colony. I think the statement that he has made to-day shows the earnest intention of the Admiralty to try and move forward in that direction.

So far as the Cape is concerned, I take it Lord Tweedmouth's statement for the Admiralty is first, that on the passage of the Bill which has been submitted to the Admiralty, the Naval Volunteers will be able to style themselves Royal Naval Volunteers; secondly, the Admiralty will, pending further arrangements, place at the disposal of the Naval Volunteers a ship, most probably the "Odin," with her guns, on which our volunteers, as well as those of the sister Colony of Natal, can get as thorough a sea-going training as possible. In the meantime, the cost of the nucleus crew for that ship, whatever crew the Admiralty considers necessary to enable her to go to sea, would be defrayed out of the joint contribution now given by the Cape and Natal to the Admiralty. I presume I would be in order, after

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