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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

TUTIIT

Reference :-

C.O. 882/10

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

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us some information on the point. In 1917 the Secretary of State for India announced the policy of the Government to be the development of self-governing institutions with a view to the progressive realization of responsible government as an integral part of the Empire. It has been assumed generally, think, by a certain section of the population in Ceylon, that that announcement also includes colonies like Ceylon and Ceylon itself. In some quarters there is con- siderable talk of home rule and even ultimate independence. So far as we know no announcement has been made that Ceylon is included in the category. I am not aware that any similar announcement has been made with regard to the colonies. But if the policy is the same with regard to Ceylon that has been announced for India, we do ask that we should know what is the ultimate idea, because we Europeans represent an enormous capital interest in the Island. We bring out our friends and relations and encourage them to settle there, to stay there, not to settle permanently, but to spend the greater part of their lives there. and if within 10, 20 or even 30 years it is in contemplation that the whole government of the country is to be handed over to the Sinhalese it is a matter which we must necessarily take into serious consideration. Already I am told that doubts as to the future of the colony are preventing capital being put into the colony. People have been frightened from investing capital owing to the uncertainty as to what is going to be the future position of the Island. It is a matter which greatly affects our interests what the general policy is. Of course. I am not permitted to ask your Lordship questions, but if some indication could possibly be given us either now or at some other time, it is a matter which I think your Lordship will see does very much affect our interests.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you, I do not know if any other gentleman would like to add anything to what has been said.

MR. HERBERT Bo18: There is one point that Mr. Hayley did not mention in connexion with official majority, and that is that Europeans considered most care- fully the alternatives that would have to exist if that official majority did not exist in the Council, and after contemplation they decided that the official majority was the lesser of two evils. That is the process by which we arrived at our ultimate decision.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: Two evils, the other being what?

MR. HERBERT BOIS: The other being the absolute veto of the Governor or increasing his powers to a greater extent than he has at present.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: He has all power at present, because he directs the official vote.

MR. HERBERT Bois: Precisely, but power in that form is less objectionable than power more personal to himself.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: That seems to be the point upon which it is most difficult to come to a conclusion. I am not sure, as at present advised, that it is A course I agree to. It is quite certain that a majority of elected members, even if there is a strong reserve power in the hands of the Governor, does give a much more popular government than the present system; but then the whole question is Is it desirable to have a more popular government? Can you avoid it? A mere increase in the number of elected members, so long as there is an effective power to override them on every occasion, cannot be called popular government at all in my opinion. You may say: "Well, Ceylon is not ripe for it. is not fit for it, do not let us have it." I do not think it is a very material concession really to these people. It is an open question whether it is wise to make the concession. but if you are going to make the concession I think there is a great deal to be said against a sham one. It would be rather a sham obviously.

MR. HAYLEY: This local self-government Bill has given a very large exten- sion of powers all over the country, coupled with the election of all their members, except one or two. It is a very great advance on the present Council, which consists almost entirely of nominated members, who, they say, are nominated so that they may not annoy the Government. That is their opinion from a genera! point of view. They will be getting a very large advance if those alterations are made. If they are given a Council with an elected majority, and there is power in the Governor to control that majority by enacting essential legislation, you are, as it were, focussing agitation on that one point. You are giving them practically Home Rule with that opposition for them to focus their agitation upon. Agita- tion will continue. The fact that you give them what they ask now will not do away with agitation. Agitation will go on.

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THE SECRETARY OF STATE: Quite so. It is always going on until you get a completely responsible Government. This is a very big question, and perhaps the most difficult one that the Government has to decide, the question of the elected majority. It is one thing or the other. If you retain your official majority there is no reason to have a reserve power; you have got all power. If not, you will have to have a reserve power. But the difference between the two courses is this, that with an elected majority in the Chamber there is a certain amount of popu lar government, and there is an opportunity I think for development. There may be differences of opinion among the elected members themselves-which is really what you want. They are conscious of having a certain amount of power. Men will take different views of the same question. So long as they know that what- ever view they take nothing will be gained I do not think you can expect them to take a great deal of interest in the proceedings of the Council and there will be no development of political opinion. You do not get any forrarder.

MR. HAYLEY: Does it make any substantial difference whether the power is in the Government or is provided by some special means? They still know that if there is a difference arising between them and the Government they may by this special means have their vote overridden. At the present time if the Government had opposition to any measure by the unofficials I do not think the Government would press that measure to a third meeting. It does not often happen.

THE SECRETary of StatE: I do not know about that.

MR. COLES: It would change the incidence of the odium incurred by the exercise of the veto from the official members of the Council to the person of the Governor. That is a point which must be considered. If the vote was lost in the Council and the Governor thought it necessary to exercise his veto, the odium would concentrate on the Governor alone.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: I should not have thought it made the slightest difference so far as the incidence of odium was concerned whether the Governor exercised his veto by saying: "I cannot allow this measure to pass." or whether he exercises it by saying: "You gentlemen go into that lobby." It is the Governor just the same. What do you think, Mr. Gollan!

MR. GOLLAN: No. I have never been able to see the difference.

MR. HAYLEY: One is a constitutional procedure to which they are accustomed, the Council voting as a whole: the other will, I am afraid, lead to tremendous explosions if it is ever done.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: I admit that the Governor in practice will be less autocratic under this system of elected majority in the Council than he is to-day. That is certain. That is the object of it.

MR. HAYLEY: Yes,

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: But whether he would be if you merely added to the number of elected members without giving them a majority is another question. MR. HAYLEY: There is to be a member on the Executive Council able to express his views there.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that is generally agreed. There is not much difference of opinion about that, that there ought to be some. unofficial element on the Executive Council in order to keep the bureaucracy more in touch with public opinion. I think everybody is agreed about that, although there is a The good deal of difference of opinion as to how it should be formed and so on. real point about which there is so much difference of opinion is whether the elected members of the Legislative Council should be in the majority or minority. My own leaning frankly is to give them a majority, but I have by no means made up my mind about it. I agree there is a great deal to be said on both sides. I think it has the least disadvantage. We may be making a mistake, but we are doing something substantial. The other thing is mere camouflage, because even if they are all agreed they cannot do anything

SIR JAMES THOMSON BROOM: Do not you think the native will soon spot that the other is camouflage too!

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: It is not. I do not want it to be camouflage, and I know it will not be, because the Governor, supposing there is one of two lines to follow, one the more popular line and the other the more autocratic line, the following of the popular line will be strengthened by the fact that he will much more rarely exercise his power of veto. The one puts a much more serious respon- sibility upon him. The question is whether you should let public opinion of the native community materially affect legislation or whether you should not.

You may say they are not ready to have this power—