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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O. 882/10

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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THE SECRETARY OF STATE: How many unofficials are there now?

MR. GOLLAN: Four elected members, a Sinhalese, two low-country and two Tamils.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: You say none of them have any commercial experience!

MR. HAYLEY: Yes. It might happen that there would be no planter in the Council. As a matter of fact there has so far always been a planter, but it is con- ceivable that an engineer or somebody else might be put up and elected, and you might have these important interests entirely unrepresented. So far a planter has always been on the Council. For instance, the Finance Committee, which buys for the Colony and spends for the Colony, consists of the Treasurer, the Controller of Revenue, and the Colonial Secretary. They have, of course, business experience from the official point of view, but not from the commercial. The rest of us are all advocates or proctors, one newspaper editor, and one planter-men with no experience of business from the commercial point of view. am a barrister, and

I have found it necessary at times to point out the meaning of such simple phrases as f.o.b. and c.i.f. We have nobody of commercial experience, and we do really ask most earnestly that that should be remedied, and that in a colony which depends entirely on its agriculture and its commerce (because the whole prosperity, of the colony does depend upon that) there should be adequate advice always at hand and opinion always ready. This report suggests three members should be nominated definitely by those bodies, not nominated by His Excellency, because those are the three bodies which represent those three interests. Two would be Europeans and one a Sinhalese.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: Is there anything else?

MR. HAYLEY: Before I leave the question of election might I refer to a sug- gestion made in the memorial to your Lordship in 1917-we deal with it in paragraph 9 of the report--that on the ground of special representation minorities should not be allowed to vote in the general territorial elections. We very strongly oppose that suggestion. We do not think it is any reason because the Europeans have one member, or the Burghers and Mohammedans have one member so as to ensure their own views being brought to the Council, that they should not have territorial interests, and be allowed to give what influence they may be able to give in the territorial elections. It may be no doubt that a Sinhalese or a Tamil will probably always be returned for the province, but as between two Sinhalese gentle- men or Tamil gentlemen, it is of no little importance that the opinions of the Burghers and Europeans and Mohammedans should be taken. They might turn the scale between two candidates who had more or less equal followings.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, a man might have several votes; he would be a plural voter. A planter, for instance, would vote for the planters' representa- tive and for the European member and for the member of his territorial area.

MR. HAYLEY: Yes. As regards the planting member he would have a vote in the Planting Association. We look upon it as only the Association nominating a member. It might be done by a committee. That would depend on the rules of the Association. There would only be two votes. In any province it might be of considerable importance that Europeans and Burghers and Mohammedans should vote.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: I suppose in the provinces, except one or two of the principal places, the European vote is practically negligible.

MR. HAYLEY: We put the suggestion from the point of view of the Burghers as well as our own. There is no reason why the Burgher should not have his vote in the province merely because he is putting one representative in the Council for the whole Island. It is really dealing with the local requirements of the particular province.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: Is there any other point?

MR. HAYLEY: With regard to the franchise there are two points that we wish to bring forward, and they are connected points. We have discussed the whole matter in our report, and, therefore, I need not go into details. desire, if possible, that steps should be taken to prevent all the elections being We very much in favour of some particular clique or party of professional politicians. If there is to be territorially elected representatives the qualification of residence should be insisted upon in the provinces, and if there is to be plural voting that the property qualification should be high. We suggest at least 30,000 rupees, so as to prevent any particular little clique, say, from Colombo, buying up little bits

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of property all over the Island, and sending their candidates all over the Island. That is the only point on that.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE: Residential qualification would defeat that, would

it not?

MR. HAYLEY Yes. That would defeat the candidate coming from outside. And if there is plural voting we ask that it should be a substantial sum to pre- vent men buying up small plots all over the Island so as to get a vote in each province. We suggest, 30,000 rupees as a substantial sum. That, I think, con- cludes what I had to say to your Lordship on the reforms in Ceylon.

Now, my Lord, there is another matter with which our report deals, and which we consider a matter of importance. I approach it with great diffidence. It is the question of the constitution of the Government at home with regard to the Island. As your Lordship knows, we mention in our report the suggestion that it might be an advantage if there could be constituted and attached to your Lordship's office, the Colonial Office, some sort of board of advisers, who have direct personal knowledge of the country and its people in the same way that there is attached to the India Office. We deal with that in paragraph 12 of the report. It seems to me, however clear the principles of government may be, the application of them must necessarily in any country depend on knowledge of the people, of the country, of the conditions, and all those subtle distinctions which differentiate one country from another; and if there could be in England at hand to give advice at any time, a board constituted of both officials and unofficials who had direct personal knowledge of the colony, such a board would be of great value. Your Lordship will remember, it has been suggested that the board at the India Office should be enlarged or reconstituted. I do not know whether any details were put forward with regard to that. I remember it being mentioned in the report which the Secretary of State for India and the Viceroy issued with regard to their reforms. They laid stress on the importance of having at hand at any time men who had personal knowledge of the colony. We have been in correspondence with other colonies on this matter, with such bodies as the Chambers of Commerce in the Straits Settlements, Hong Kong, and other places, and there seems to be a general approval of our suggestion; and we think that it might be possible to constitute a general board with one or two representatives from each colony, because some colonies like Ceylon. the Straits Settlements, Hong Kong, the Federated Malay States, may have some questions which are similar dealing with similar matters, and then sub-committees of the larger board could deal particularly with the affairs of each particular colony. It seems to us that the affairs of government would be more easily and more efficiently conducted if the Secretary of State had at hand a board of that nature to which he could refer, and that it might very well facilitate the development of countries by the interchange of ideas in scientific, agricultural, and in commercial matters, and possibly in the making of similar laws in similar circumstances. That is a matter which we have dealt with in paragraph 12 of the report, and we ask your Lordship's earnest consideration of it. We suggest there that if it could be done there might be some interchange of officials between Ceylon and India; that is to say, some officials who towards the end of their career, after they have had experience of Ceylon, might be brought home, and if that was so arrangements should be made that the pension should carry on. But, of course, that is a matter of detail.

THE SECRETary of StatE: Yes.

We

MR. HAYLEY: Generally speaking that is how the matter appeals to us. cannot conceive of any concern of the size of Ceylon, assuming it was a business proposition, being conducted from so far away as England without local know- ledge immediately available at hand. We understand that there is not in the present constitution any such local knowledge, and, of course, the sources of infor- mation even may not necessarily be themselves acquainted with local conditions. The Governor is changed after a short period of years. He must of necessity spend the first part of his time in learning. He is the direct channel of approach. His adviser, the Colonial Secretary, of course, comes from England, or from another colony. He may not have personal knowledge.

My Lord, might I, in conclusion, refer to one matter which is not contained in the report, but which we desire to bring to your Lordship's notice. Of course I am not entitled in any way to ask your Lordship questions, but there is a matter of considerable importance which we wish to indicate, if you will give