CO882-(8-9) — Page 375

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

CO. 882

9

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

!!

17 wee

MATLETIES ROYAL COMMISSION, 1909-

The Hon Sir G J BOWER, KCMG

172 1: would even pay the country if you had pay them com derably more than you are paying These panople here?

!

Yos

17965 What proportion do you anggest-about a renth of the free to for Englishuen? - You, 10 per 11 111

17,961 Deling with that matter of course there has been a onsolerable mereuse of crime lately? Y..

17,56% To what do you attribute that Mainly to

דיוייין

1 You do not attribute it to the incompetence of the polar Something must be allowed for the incompetence of the poker, but the main cause, the I can give you returns to prove root cause, is poverty that

I have not got them with me 17.47 Do not you attribute it at all to the way in which these people are treated in the prisons? Some of the members of the Commission have had an oppor County of wing how they are treated?--Y, that has Something to do with it. but I attribute it. first. L

the unrtainty of detection penery secondly, to

the way they

and conviction, and only thirdly to are treated in the prisons

17.56% That uncertainly, of course, is made all the more uncertain by mefficient police - Yes, but there is always a final chance for a magistrate in which some law point may be raised or they may get the best of the First Offenders Act, and cases are often tril long after the crime has been committed, so that the witnesses may break down in cross-examination

I do not think 17.569. The prosecution may fail. that is peculiar to Mauritius? It is only in the third degree that I attribute it to the treatment in the prisons

17370 Have you any suggestion to put before us about the prison régime? Hare you considered it parti vularly, if not, I will not trouble you?--Yea, I have had the question before me quite recently, and we are going to change the prison diet, but I do not know that the prison diet will be much poorer than it is now, even when it is change. The difficulty we have got to face, especially when we have got Stipendiary Court prisoners. that they come in an anemie condition and the mortality amongst them is very heavy.

17.571. Those are the prisoners who would always call for special treatment, but why should not you decrease the scale of diet with regard to the average prisoner? You could always make special arrangements for awamie people? - I would rather increase the

work

17,372. What is your objection to decreasing the scale? Because 1 afraid of undermining his health and increasing the death rate.

17.578. And you really think that any decrease in the weals of the prison diet would do that?--Yên, I

think so.

17,374. I am talking about all of them ?--Yes, they have all or nearly all got something the matter with them, and insuflicient nourishmeat may develop latent mischief.

17,575 With regard to the labour in the prisons, what do you say about that P-I would sooner make We are increasing the amount the labour more severe.

of uncadam to be broken, and I have spoken to the Superintendent and Mr. Warwick, the chief gaoler. about greater supervision of the out-door gangs and getting harder work out of them.

17,576. We are very much struck with the extra. ordinary expense to which the Colony is put in connection with the printing of small odd documenta. Do not you think that might be done by typewriting and a great saving effected? What I would like to do would lete transfer the whole of the printing to the Store- We get it done cheaper keeper General's Department.

a better there. As regards the rest, there are certain cases in which 1 think printing ought to be the rule, and broadly it comes to this, that where you are yending papers to the Secretary of State, it in a great convenience to send printed copies of any matter that

likely to interest the Secretary of State.

17,577 I should have thought typewritten copies

¡Continued

would have been as pleasing to him?-They might. but that is the rule that I have had in my mind

17,578 (Chairman) I want to ask you whether the They Government insures the sheds down at the port contain a number of things which do not belong to the Government, but they are compulsory stores, many of Theun What would be the position of the Government if they were burned down-They would be protected 1 think it is under Article 71 of the Customs Law

Article 71 of the Customs Law, page 1,399 of Volume 11. Article 72 is also protective

17,579 What does it say ? It says that the Govern- ment is not responsible for fire or other inevitable accident. I think those are the words.

17,580 You mean that as regards all the things stored in the Government sheds, if there was a fire in the sheds, the Government would not have to pay Anything? No, not under the Customs Law

17.58! That is not at all what was tobl as by the Collector of Customs I suppose he is wrong

IA

a

17.382. (Sir Edward (Malley) Of course there fire clause with regard to negligence in all Inm Government concerns --That is another thing speaking of accident.

17.543. (Chairman.) It might be very difficult, but does the Government consider it is quite safe in not having these sheds insured. I am told they are not insured-They are not insured.

17,584. Do not you run

enormous risk?-I

always considered we were covered so long as we had that article.

17,345. Have you got the opinion of the Procureur General with regard to that ?--I cannot say off-hand He must have given an opinion either directly or indirectly, but I could not say for certain off-hand.

17.56 Why should not the newspapers in this Colony pay for their postage? It is a question which has been raised for years. I do not see why they should not.

17.587. We are told that the return in that they put Government advertisements in the papers free. Now as the estimate is given to us as Rs. 3,000 per annum if the stumps were affixed to the newspapers, I should think the Government advertisements could not come to anything like that, and therefore, why should not the newspapers do, as they do in other places, and that is, have to carry stamps when they go through the post ?-As far as I know, there are only two Colonien there may be others-Tasmania and Newfoundland, which send newspapers free.

17,588. Why should not they be made to pay here? -There is no reason.

17.589. Do you know how it comes about that it is not done P-I want to tell you the effect of it. The effect will be to favour the evening papers against the morning papers. That is to say, the evening papers, which are bought at the stations, will be favoured, and the morning papers will suffer.

17.590, do not see that that is a matter for the Government to enter into P-No.

17,591. (Sir Edward O'Malley.) You were here during the whole of 1907, were you not ?-No, not the whole of it. I came back in August 1907.

17,592. But you know the history of the proposal of the loan to planters ?—Yes.

17.593. You know it intimately ?—Yes.

17,594. The first proposal was formulated by Mr. Leclézio ?—Yen.

17.595. Mr. Leclėsio subsequently withdrew his prior claim to moving that motion in favour of somebody else -Mr. Antelme, I think?—Yes.

17,596. Mr. Leclézio's motion had been for an advance to planters to improve their machinery?— Yon.

17,597. When Mr. Antelme brought forward his motion there was nothing about that in it, was there? -No,

17,598. It was solely for the purpose of assisting planters for the purpose of the faisance valoir? Yes.

17,599. Has Mr. Lecléxio's motion been revived ? -No, not since.

17,600. Not since P-It has not been brought forward.

17 August 150g

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

The Hon. Sir G. J. BoWER, K.C MG.

17.601. When the matter was before the Council of Government, in April 1998, I think it was, what was the proposal then P-No, it was March, 1908; then it

am fore the Executive Council.

17.62 But did not it come before the Legislative Comil The Council was not sitting then.

17,3. It do not come before the Legislative Counel No.

1764. Has a proposal for a loan to plantera to unprove their machinery never been debated in the Council of Government?-Not Mr. Leclézio's latest

tion.

I do not remember it. There was a discussion the 13th December 1897, on a resolution of the Chamber of Agriculture, which was sent home with The support of Sir Charles Brace. It was then rejected by Mr Chamberlain, if I remember correctly, and that would be warly in 1898. Mr. Loclézio's last motion was put on the notice paper, speaking roughly, in September or October 1907.

95

Continued.

drawn in favour of Mr. Antelme's motion, I think. in November 1907 Then the question cropped up after the cyclone in February.

17,696. Before November 1907?—It might have ben October; I cannot remember all the dates, Then after the cyclone, which took place at the end of February 1908, the question was brought up in -Executive Council and discussed and cables were sent

home.

17,807 How did it come up there?-Mr. Leclézio discussed it with the Governor and brought it up with the consent of the Governor.

17,608. In Executive Council?-Yes, in Executive Council. That would be March, 1908.

17,609. And it never went any further -It went to the Secretary of State.

17,610. I mean to the Government P-No, it never went to the Council, as a matter for debate. I do not speak of a Parliamentary Paper as a matter for delate.

17,4995 (Sir Edward O'Malley.) Nine years after- Then it was with- war is-Yes, nine years afterwards.

The witness withdrew.

Adjourned for a short time.

Sitting resumed at Government House, Le Réduit.

(24.)

His Excellency Sir CAVENDISH BOYLE, K.C.M.G. recalled. Further examined in private.

17,611. (Chairman.) I should like to ask you how far you think there prevails any desire in the Colony for making a loan to planters P-In my first answer to that question, or rather to a similar question, I said that I did not think they would apply for a loan.. Since then I have had an opportunity of seeing the reports of some of the examinations which you have conducted, and I see that some of the witnesses whom you have heard answered that it would be a good thing, but I really do not think that there is, to any extent, a declared desire on the part of the general community of planters, that there should be a loan mide to them.

17,612. Would the circumstances of the Colony justify advances to planters -I think, as I said before, that the result of advances of that nature would be beneficial to the Colony, but whether the present frcumstances demand it or not, certainly cannot

Aly.

17,613. I think this question rather means, would the circumstances of the Colony justify a loan P Ia the indebtedness of the Colony so great or as little as to prevent it or to make it quite reasonable P-I think, in comparison with the indebtedness of other Dependencies of the Crown, it would be justifiable were it demanded. I think the circumstances of the Colony are such that it could bear such a loan.

17,814. Would the possible gain to the Colony justify any increased responsibility that would be thrown upon it for borrowing the money to re-lend to planters P-I think, if that was asked for by the persons interested, I should be justified in recommending it. but only were it asked for.

17.615. Have you considered the way in which it has been put to us? It has, I think, invariably been put to us that the Colony would always make money out of it P-I think the loan would certainly pay its way without undue risk, but if you sak me whether the Colony would make money out of it or not, I reply that I do not think it is correct financing that it should be so. 17,616. I not it the fact that the Colony has hitherto made money out of these loans P--There is no doubt that the Hurricane Loan was calculated on that principle.

17,617. And, so far as you know at present, there in no likelihood of the Colony coming out of any of these transactions except as a beneficiary ?—No likelihood.

17,618. From that point of view would it be either a risk or an inadvisable step to borrow money to re-lend to the planting community, supposing, by that means, the general prosperity of the Colony would be increased P -I think it would be quite justifiable. I do not think it would be risky. Of course, it must be to a limited extent.

17,619. Do you know of any present need for any further railway extensions P-None have been brought to my notice.

17,820. (Mr. Woodcock.) You may remember one was suggested by Mr. Duclos. Speaking from memory, it ran from somewhere in the Pamplemoussen District down to St. Julien in the middle of the island P-My experience of the recent extensions has been that they have been pressed for, and after having been granted, it has been found that the need of them was not so great as was presented.

17,621. You do not think that the centre part of the island is at all suffering from the want of railway extension ?--I should far prefer putting the prosent system on a proper basis before any extension takes place. I do not think the people demand it or want it. Bome may think that they want it, but there is no urgent need for it.

́17,622, (Chairman.) I should like to put to you one case which bears upon this question of a loan to planters. We visited, the other day, the Black River District, and we found in it only two mills remaining out of many that had been there before. There were only two working mill. They were not of the very beat-not nearly so good as many we have seen and we found the small planters in the district were sending their canes almost as far as the railway would carry them, that is to say, either to Moks or to Pample- mousses, the remaon for that being that the owners of these two factories, being in that unfortunate district, could not afford to pay as high a price for the canes Az they could afford to pay at these much larger mills in much more prosperous places. The consequence was