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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

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27 July 1989

Dr J G Horwood

buaize or something of that kind they could have got

Yes, that is quite true. thing 13790 I do not think that that speak- altogether Do you know whether there are lly for the rice any charitable institutions in the Colony, 1 mean apart Very fow. I cannot from the Government altogether?

hunk of any

There are the Roman Catholic convents 13,721. Do they take pesor chuldron in - Yes, BOLERO 1.mes they d

13,799 M Wood luck : Are they the orphanages ? There are the CM.S -I forget the orphanages

phanages

13.723 Chatman) What does CMS stand for? -The Church Missionary Society

13.724 A Protestani orphanage? -Yes, and I know Plaisance" they never refuse any urgent cuse-any I have sent them two or three, and I IF destitute have never found that a really urgent case of an orphan -lestitute is refused. They take in the boys, and then there is a girls' orphanage at Rose Belle

13,725. How many orphanages have they? -Tao 13.726 One for boys and one for girls, is that it? -Yes, one for boys and one for girls

13.727 That is all that you know of --Then there I do not think re the Roman Catholic convents. they have any place for boys, but they do take in girls

13.72 Is it the one at the foot of the hill down bere I do not know.

13,729. (Sir Edward O'Malley » There is one oppomite the church here, on the way to the cricket ground? Yes, there is one there. There is another one to which I went near Rose Belle.

13,730. (Mr. Woolcock) Are those orphatuges, or o they take in girls there for payment ?—I could not I know very tell you exactly what their rules are httle about them.

13.731. (Chairman ↑ You spoke of the better class holius. Do you mean better-to-do, because there urely are not many better clasa Indians in Mauritius? - Yes, I mean the letter-to-do, usually Mahominedans

13.732. Do you ever go into their houses - Yes, at Port Louis often. They are well-to-do a good number ..f them.

13,733. Do you go there professionally ?—Yes. 13,734. Iinigine that they would not go and ask for medical advice from a man?-Not most of them, but me of them will send for one. I know some of them have done so, but, as a rule, what they lo is to send their husbands to ask for a bottle of medicine and say the doctor must not see the patient.

13.735. That is rather hopeless, but they do not wruple to call you in f—No.

13.736. Du they usually do what you tell them?— - Yes, they do, as a rule. It depends whether you order As a rule the anything of an expensive nature.

Mahommedan husland values his wife at the price he gave for her, and if you order anything expensive it is not always obtained. The husband's consent is always necessary before any line of treatment is adopted; "it depends also on the individuals.

13,737. (Mr. Woodcock.) Do you get paid for those attendances -Oh, yes, R. 2 a visit and payment of

the carriage.

13,738. (Chairman.) I see here in your account—-—- ? That is not my account; it is the committee's account. 13.739. You have nothing to do with it?-No, 1 have nothing to do with it.

13,740. Then yon do not know what the private fund of the Bishop of Mauritius is P--No. 1 never saw such a statement as that before, I should think it means out of his own pocket. I would have nothing to do with that balance-sheet.

13.741. Have you got anything to say about your mission! Do you think that it does a great deal of good, or that your staff wants strengthening, or what? Yes, I do think that my staff wants strengthening. because we have so many applications for in-patients that we have to refuse them.

13,742. You mean that your accommodation is not large enough; you want more hospital accommo- dation P-Yes, it is not large enough. Chiefly we Want more assistants, because, sa a rule, I have to refuse a case for fear of overworking my staff. There

[Continued

I only the dispenser and the nurse, also an Indian woman who help with the washing and does little things, but she is not very reliable Gratuitons help in also given me by the C.M.S. ladies and Miss MeIrvine 13.763 Who is your dispenser Miss Brodie. 15.744 1 sbe an English lady, or does she belong She was born to Mauritius? She is of Scotch birth

it here, but her parents wern Scotch.

13,745 She does nothing except the dispensing — Yes, she supermtends the nursing and, if I cannot go down to the dispensaries, she goes down and attends The ut-patients She is assists at operations and examinations

13.746. Is she a qualified dispenser-No

13.747 How does she do it?---She comes with me every time and see what kind of drugs I give in the ordinary routine. Of course there are some patients that she cannot treat, but she usually knows what drugs

to use

13,748 But does she make up medicines - Yes. 1.3.749 s not that rather dangerous I am We cannot afford a responsible for what she does. qualified dispenser, since it would mean getting a lady but from England

13,759). (Chairman. ; I suppose you have nothing to do with the soldiers' wives ?—No, nothing If they choose to come to use as private patients, of course I take them, that is all.

Yen

13,751 Mr Woodcock You do private practice →→

13,752 (Chairman) Who sent you out here -The committee out here applied for a medical woman through the Bishop of Mauritius, Bishop Pym, Mrs She Walsh. the Bishop of Dover's wife, selected me. was on what they call the Home Committee.

13.753. (Sir Edward O'Malley.) We were told by the medical authority. I think Dr. Barbeau, that as a rule if the Indians come for medical advice, or send for medicat advice, they never send a second time- they have one visit and that is all? That is not the cuse, because sometimes when I go to them they say Will you come again without my sending for you? Sometimes, when it is an urgent case, I have to go again.

"

13.754. Du you mean in the poor cases, or in the others -Yes, in the poor enses. They are always pleased. if it is an urgent case, if you will go again.

13.755. (Mr. Woodcock.) It arose in this way, it I was expressing some you will allow me to explain. surprise that the poor law authority or the medical authority paid visits, and apparently a number of visits, to persons at their own houses. I was then told

Well, it does not come to so very much, because we only go once; the Indian asks us to come and see him once, and then he does not come again; he expects us either to cure him, or else be is content to die "I have not found that. If you will go again they are only too pleased. It is when you require money and they have none, or when they do not want to pay, that they do not need you again.

13,756. Quite; but supposing it in free P--Of course they are very pleased if you will go again; they beg me to go very often.

13,757 (Sir Edward O'Malley.) I suppose, if you had the means, you could carry out this same work un a much larger scale?—Yes; but if it were larger we should want another doctor.

13.757a. Have you anything of the kind on the other side of the Island ?—No, nothing.

13.758. Then they have only there the poor law people to whom they can apply -A lady at the C.M.S. orphanage gives medicines free to the poor people, because we find the neod in so great.

13,759. In that on the other side?-Yes, at the girls' orphanage at Rose Belle.

13,780. At that hospital at Beau Bassin you say the Sisters of Mercy work in the day time -They give the medicines, but they do not really do nurse's work, because it is against their oath or regulations.

13,761. They do help in the work Yes, they cannot do the ordinary nurse's work; they give the medicines and look after the food, but the actual nursing in against their regulations. Then at night I

27 July 1909

Dr. J. G. HORWOOD.

think Creole women attend the patients, but I could not be certain of the night nursing. I cannot speak with authority about it, because I have not seen it. I know that the patients say they are not attended to.

13,762. The Indian does not trust the Creole for charity? No.

13,763. That is very marked and distinct ?—Yes, that is very marked and distinct.

13,764. And the Creole. I suppose, despises the Indian Yes. he has an utter contempt for the Malabar." That is the difficulty of getting a Creole to work, because they will not do work that an Indian does.

13,765. I understand that a great many of these people do do what is called skilled work; they can do a little carpentering or something of that sort, but they are out of work F-Yea, they are; that is the cause of the burglaries now so rife.

13.766. Now do these sort of people apply for poor relief? Yes, they do, and sometimes they get it, I think. I have not so much to do with them.

13,767. Now, about the land. You say that you think that a very good test, and also a very good way of giving relief where people apply for subsistence, would be to give them a small piece of land to cultivate? Yes, and give them perhaps maniocs or something to start with.

13,768. Would they be able to build themselves a hut The Indians would; they are very good at doing that.

13,769. The Creole would get an Indian to do it, I Huppose P-Yes.

13,770. He would be helpless ?—I do not think he would do very much. Of course some are different. There are some thrifty Creoles. I know one or two good ones, but then, as a rule, they get work, except in times of stress, as at present.

13,771. The Creoles do ?—I think, if they are good, they do as a rule. Of course they do not always.

13,772. In the neighbourhood of Rose Hill and Quatre Bornes, and round about there, is there avail. able land that you could turn them on to at once - There is a good deal of waste land there.

13,778. (Mr. Woodcock.) That is a matter you would hardly have knowledge of P-No, I do not know really much about it.

(Sir Edward O'Malley.) When you suggest that, the question to my mind is whether it is a practicable If there was no land, say, within some thing or not. miles, and one did not know of land which had water near it, or anything of that sort →→

(Chairman.) I think Mr. Trotter told us there was enough land available.

(Sir Edward O'Malley.) He spoke of that land on the left-hand side of the road going down to Port Louis

(Mr. Woodcock.) We had it from the Director of Woods and Forests.

13,774. (Sir Edward O'Malley.) I know that. (To the witness.) You do not yourself know of it, but if anybody came to you and wanted relief, is there any land that you know of, suitable or likely on which to put them That seems to be the difficulty whenever this subject is mentioned P-Yes, on what land they could be put.

13,775. Yes, practically ?—I see waste land as I go down in the train and as I go along in carrioles, but I do not known to whom the land belongs. I do not know enough about the question; I have not studied it. 13,776. There are no communities or anything of that sort amongst these people P-I do not think so. There is very little esprit de corps.

13,777. In sous places they subscribe so much for the services of a doctor ?—I have never heard of it out here. Ours is the only medical institution, I think, in which most of the patients help themselves. Even for the Bacteriological Institution, the Government pays the fee for the bacteriological examination, whereas at home the doctor pays the fees and refunds himself from his patient.

13,778. In visiting these people's houses, do you find that they are dlthy ?-The Oreoles are very filthy; not the Indians.

[Continued.

13,779. The Indians are cleanly ?---I should say they are more cleanly than the poor at home. Of course there is the difference of climate, they have not to wrap themselves up in many clothes, as they do at home. They are very fond of amearing themselves with cocoa. nut oil, and they are fond of bathing.

13,780. Have you asked for any increase of the Government grant or anything of that sort?—No. When I came back in 1907 the grant was increased,

Before

otherwise I could not have come back at all. it was Rs. 1,000; now I think it is Rs. 3,000.

13,781. The Government grant -Yes, and they give us drugs-101. worth of drugs every year and

additional quinine. Last year I think we had about 51. worth of additional quinine. Want of funds is a great difficulty.

15,782. (Mr. Woodcock.) Have you had an oppor tunity, since you have been here, of coming in contact with the medical department throughout the Island ?— Yes, I have seen something of it.

Also from Dr. Milne

I have heard a good deal about it.

13,783. You are possibly aware that the vast majority

of the doctors in the Island-nearly all the doctors, 1 may say are in the Government service?-Yes, I know. 13,784. In your opinion would it be possible for the Government work to be done by employing doctors who are in private practice P—Yes.

19,785. As is commonly done in England as medical officers of health, and so on ?—Yes, I should say so, certainly.

13,786. One of the objections which has been raised to that course before us is this: It is said, "Oh, but we "must have a doctor in a particular district; he must be "the doctor of that district only, because of the difficulty "of getting about; we must have him there to attend "the dispensary and to go and see people even, in their "own homes, and to attend forest rangers," and all sorts of things of that kind Now in your judgment would it be possible to get that work done by a private medical practitioner, paying him on some scale-it does not matter what for the moment. Do you think it is necessary to have all these district officers in the entire service of the Government P-No, I am sure it is not. Of course some of them are overworked; they are getting other men's work as well as their own, and they would not have much time for private practice; but, as a rule, when they have their own work and nobody else's duty, and if they have not got to attend to 70 schools and count the spleens of every child, which could be done by the schoolmaster, they should be able to have private practice.

13,787. I am not interested in that. You tell us that there is work short of that which is wasteful for men of their ability?—Yes, quite.

13,788. You are talking about the spleen census"— They have to examine for the spleen and see whether it can be felt below the left costal margin.

13,789. Of every child in the Island -Of every child in the schools."

13,790. How often do they have to do this P-1 do not remember exactly.

13,791. Periodically P-Yes, very often; it may be once a month or once a fortnight.

13,792. Anyhow, very frequently P-Yes, very fre- quently.

18,793. (Chairman.) Is that the result of Major Rom coming here?—Yes.

13,794. (Mr. Woodcook.) It is a sort of spleen census P—It is a spleen census.

13,795. Do you my that that is work that could be done by any intelligent master in the school ?—Yon, very easily. My assistant could do it, and she is not qualified. It would require about a fortnight's training to be able to do that work.

13,796. Are there any other duties like that that are cast on these doctors that you think can be done by somebody else?—Yes.

13,797. For example, what P--They have to go down to the meat market to see if the foos have been paid for a stall.

13,798. Do you mean that a medical man has to go down to the market to see that the fee has been paid

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