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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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C.O. 882

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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23 July 1909

3.255

MAURITIUS ROYAL COMMISSION, 1909

Major-timeral A G CREAGH; CB, RA

Cheerman | Do you see any difference in The Comel in the elective members and the members that are nominated by the Governor- No, they nearly dways, unless they are obliged to do otherwise, vote with the elected mèmis

13,256 Then what is the objection to the elected members if they behave in the council just like the nominated members -1 do not think much of the There is Mr Nallétamby, uminated memler either

who was appanted to look after the Native intereste I have never known hun set to vote exempt in accord- ative with the views of the other elected members, even when it was a question of the double cut

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18.257 You have read Major Ross's Report on Malaria -You

13.25 You know what measures have been taken up at Vacca-Very well indel

13,259 You consider that his recommendations are necessary - You

[Continued.

13.272. Mr Woodcock Do you mean to say they rely so much on vaccination as all that?—Yes; so I am tel

1 g rather from what I am told. 13.273 Chairman) You think that the holders of ertain pests in the Island should be Englishmen. because you say that so many of the people here are connected or related to each other that it is very Atficult for Mauritius people to be impartial. Have you notice any particular cases where they were not impartial-Where they were partial?

18.274 Yes, where they were not impartial!—Yes. several.

He

13.275. Can you give us any ?-Yes, the first case that decurs to me in the case of Colonel Vowell. was at an auction at Curepipe and he bought certain things, and a few days afterwards he got a bill for several other things which he had never bid for at all. However, it was insisted Of course, he protested. upon, and he was told he must pay; they took an action against him. But he had the evidence of a few British officers and two or three ladies who were pre- pared to say that he had not bid for those various It came before articles for which the bill was sent. You know that be

verdict against Colone! the magistrate, and he gave minor works and major

Do you think Vowell, and he had to buy those articles and pay the

13.260 Where they have been carries out you say they have been followed by less undaria?—Yes

13.26) Are you of opinion that all his recom. mendations should be carried out?

has recommetoled certain works which would cost Rs 630,000 that the state of health of the Colony is such that those works ought to be carried out in the way he that Colonel am inclined to think -nggesta 1

in view of the state of Burrell's suggestion is better the Columny

13.262 You mean that it would be lean expensive ?

-Y

13.263 And. you think, qually effective?—No, I Of course the more do not suppose they would be thoroughly a thing is done the more effective it would

13.264 His main suggestion, as I understond from him, is to clear the banks of rivers, especially in the neighbourhood of inhabited places?—Yes; to drain all

archer

18,265 All marshes, or banks of rivers in the neighbourhook of inhabited places-First of all in the neighbourhood of inhabited places, and then, if possible. elsewhere. There is oue suggestion he made, if I may be allowed to add, which was to stop the enormous unmber of mosquitoes which are bred in cemeteries. This place is evered with cemeteries and, following the French custom, they place a large quantity of flowers in receptacles on the graves, and the mosquitoes breed in those receptacles.

(Mr. Woodrock.) I do not remember that he men. bone cemeteries.

13,286. (Chairman No, he did not-It came up before the Council and some of the membors said that it was against the sentiment of the people to do away So then it was suggested that dry sand with them. should be used, and Sir Cavendish Boyle said he would After he inquire and see how much it would cost. went home the result of the inquiry came out that it would cost Rs. 30 a year to supply sand for all the cemeteries; but even then they would not have it. No, it was against the sentiments of the people, so here we are, subject to all the plague of the mosquitoes, when the place could be disinfected properly. It is full of these costalis, which is the particular one which conveys the yellow fever.

13.267. (Secretary) It is the stegomyia -Yes: I may be wrong about that.

13,288. (Chairman. You say that compulsory vaccination and revaccination should be introduced ? I did not understand that vaccination is compulsory.

13,269. It is, but not revaccination P-t did not know that even ordinary vascination is compulsory: I am very glad to hear it.

13,270. I think it is; I think that is what we were told-But they are awfully afraid of small-pox.

13,271. You think that if that were carried out they would be less strict in quarantining vessels which canie from places where there was small-pox. I should rather doubt it. I do not think, even if the people were all vaccinated and re-vaccinated, that the authori tisa would remove the rules of quarantine?—But they do in other places; of course this is a peculiar place.

Corta.

13.276. What was the name of that magistrate ?— Mr Le Miere, to the beat of my recollection.

13.277 Is he the magistrate at Curepipe, or does he belong to some other district I think he has retired since

13.278, (Mr Wodcock. Did Colonel Vowell appeal ? -He represented it to the Governor, but of course he He said, What is the use And he could not interfere. of appealing; it is only throwing good money after bud.

13,279 (Chairman.) Can you give us any other instances? Yes. There was a case of Major Churchill In January 1907. shortly after I came in my staff. here, he was coming into the office one morning and he saw the contractors' men were working on teak wood and he saw there was a foreman making a tos table in the yard. There was a clause in the contract which forbade them to do any private work, so he reported this matter to me and seized the table. The contractors brought an action against him for defama- was tried before Judge tion of character and it Delafaye, who was here this morning, and Judge Koenig. I think, was the other judge, and when the Official Report was read out in court there was not a word about the contractor, but Major Churchill said distinctly that he had seen the foreman, and he thought he ought to report the matter; that it was against the contract, but not a word was said against the con- tractors. You would think that that case would have been given against the contractors, but instead of that it was settled out of court, and Major Churchill had to pay the costa.

13,280. (Mr. Woodcock.) Was this in a Military yard ?--Yes.

13,281. Was it Major Churchill's duty, supposing he had seen anything of that sort, to report it to you!

-Absolutely.

13,282. That should have been an absolute defence? --That was the line that was taken up. I had to go as a witness myself and I was asked what his duty was with regard to it.

13,283. Major Churchill chose to go and settle the rase out of court P-What could he do? He was told to. It was the decision of the judges.

(Mr. Woodcock.) No, no, I do not think it was. 13,284. (Chairman.) You mean the judge advised him to settle it out of court? The judge said it was a case that should be settled out of court.

13,285. (Mr. Woodcock.) I cannot help thinking that it was the very last case in the world that should have boen settled. Either he, or the War Office as repre- sented by you, if I may say so, should not have allowed it to be settled. You were trying a big question of principle which involved the War Öflon ?—I think the War Office were to blame. I would have supported the War Office if they had supported Major Churchill first, and the contractors would never have brought the

23 July 1909.]

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Major-General A. G. CREAGH, C.B., R.A.

action, but the War Office apparently thought that Major Churchill was wanting in tact, not having seen the evidence, and said they would decide about it when they saw the result.

13,286. (Sir Edward O'Malley) That is the rule in the Colonial Office; fight your own action if you fight it at all. and then the Government will consider it afterwards?—Yes. but they did not, notwithstanding my very strong protest.

13,987 (Chairman) Wan it referred to the War ße 2-Yes, it dragged on. I think for a year and a quarter, roughly speaking, it lasted an enormous time und there were a lot of costa, I went home for six months' leave and came back, and it was not settled then

I gave evidence de benc esse bofore I went away. and when I came back I was had up in court to give evidence again, some months after I came back.

13.288. Do you know any other cases - think you have heard of the case of the harbour master and The captain of the French steamer, whom he brought an action against for dropping coal over into the harbour.

13.299. (Mr. Woodcock.) Yes, that case seemed to on purely technical grounds, on which it is quite Whether possible to defend the magistrate's decision

it is correct or not. I do not know. but it is quite possible that it was correct?-Did you ever hear of the case of the native on the Alma estate, who got a year's imprisonment for stealing a pound of grain. According to the law in Mauritius, I understand that a man should get not more than three months' imprisonment for an offence like that. This man was imprisoned for stealing a pound of grain, and he pleaded, as a defence, that his children were starving at the time that he

stole the grain. Unfortunately, the magistrate gave him a year's imprisonment, and it was represented to the Governor by Sir Graham Bower and Mr. Herchen. roder that it was beyond the legal punishment, and that he ought to reduce it to three months' imprison- ment, if not less. However, he did not; he said he would think about it, and when Sir Graham Bower mw him again, Mr. Leclézio had been with him with regard to the matter, and he said he would not interfere. That is an absolute fact.

13,290. (Chairman.} Is that the magistrate at Moka I believe ao.

18,201. Do you happen to know whether that man --probably you do not-was an indentured coolie or not -I do not know.

13,292. I only ask you because, if he was an inden. tured coolie, it was the business of the manager to find him with food. You probably do not know the exact particulars of the case, and you would not be able to Bay-I only know the particulars so far as I have told From.

13293. (Mr. Woodcock.) Could you tell us about the date when this happened; how long ngo was it ?—I should say I heard of it about six months ago; it had then just occurred.

13,294. (Chairman) What was the name of the estate?—The Alma estate.

13,295. What was the name of the man; can you remember the name of the Indian at all P-No; it would, no doubt, be in Mr. Herchenroder's books.

18,296. Is there any other case that you can remember -I know of another case of a very curious decision. I may tell you that the Armourer-Sergeant of the North Lancashire Regiment had 30 sovereigns stolen out of his box by one of his servants, and the servant was caught, and he was found guilty, but he was let off under the First Offendere Act, and the money was never recovered by the Armourer-Sergeant to this day.

13,297. Was it proved that he had stolen the money -I think the man amitted it.

13,298. (Mr. Woodcock.) There was no auggestion made that the case should be put back so that the prisoner might be dealt with under the First Offenders Act if he restored the stolen money or part of it - I do not think so. I never heard anything of that kind. 13,299. (Sir Edward ('Malley.) When was that case P-I cannot give you the date; I can find out to-morrow and give you the date.

¡Continued.

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13,300). (Mr Woodcock.) You cannot say when it was? No, I cannot say when it was.

13,301. What was the name of the man ?—Armourer- Sergeant Erakine.

13,302. We shall probably find out the date!-- I can find out the date to-morrow if you wish to know it. Did you ever hear of the case of the telegram of the examiners about the English scholarship That is rather a curious thing Of course, you know the English scholarships are given, one to the Modern vide and one to the Classical side, if the boys are qualified Last year the examiners recommended one boy on the Classical side for the scholarship. The Governor asked them, by cable, if no boy on the Modern side was qualified They replied in the negative. You would have thought that that would have finished the matter, but it did not. The people interested then pereunded the Governor to ask the examiners to reconsider their decision. He telegraphed home that he thought, in the interests of his administration, they should reconsider that decision. Of course I opposed that.

13,303, (Chairman.) How do you know that P-It came up before the Executive Council.

13,304. (Mr. Woodcock.) This matter came up before the Executive Council P-Yes.

13,305. And did the Governor state that he had sent a telegram asking that the decision should be recon- sidered ?—Yes, and I asked that my objection should be entered in the minutes of the proceedings, and I hope it is there.

13,306. (Chairman.) What did become of that second scholarship —The examiners did, in face of that heavy pressure, reconsider their decision and said "The boy on the Modern side is qualified,” and so a scholarship was given to him.

(Chairman.) They gave one scholarship on each side; to the boy on the Modern side and to the boy on the Classical side.

13,307. (Mr. Woodcock.) The two Classical boys got it P-No.

13,308. (Chairman.) Only one Classical boy got the scholarship. There were two Classical boys who were qualified, but there was no boy on the Modern-vide who was qualified P-That is so.

13,309. (Mr. Woodcock.) Then, under those circum. stances, the boy who was second on the Classical side should have got the second scholarship ?—I do not think there is any compulsion with regard to it, but it is commonly done. But the boy expected it, and his father appealed about it.

13,310. (Chairman.) I think I naked the other day at the school whether there was any onse of a scholar- ship being given to a boy who had not obtained the the qualifying number of marks, and I was told, No! --- Because then the examiners did reconsider their decision. I suppose then it was considered that he had obtained the qualifying number of marks.

19,311. (Sir Edward O'Malley.) The question I should like to ask is with reference to your answers to the questions. I gather from this that you look upon the bad system of administration and regard as the principal defect in the system the elective members ?

Yes.

13,312. I can understand your feeling that the council altogether, considering what the material is here in Mauritius, may be conducive to extravagance and one thing and another, but why do yon distinguish between the elective and the other element? Do you think there is much to choose between them ?—No. I do not think there is very much, I think, of courne, that Mr. Ritter and Mr. De Chazal are a better class of men, especially Mr. Ritter, but I think that Dr. Edwards is just like the rest of them.

13,313, Then Mr. Leolézio and Bir William Newton are members of the Executive Council P-Yen.

13,816. How did they vote in cages where the Executive Council determines upon some particular line of motion ?--I cannot quite understand what they did. They were generally opposed to all the rest of us.

13,915. In the Executive Coupail?—For instance, there was the case of the murder of Bowania Futtah in which Kalla Maharan, Rambux and Gunput Bunna were condemned to death for the murder.

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