PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
TTIC.O. 885
8
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
that the
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advantage to the Empire generally. If we can expedite the carriage of the mails and passengers, I think trade is likely to follow that expedition. I think trade is likely to follow rapid means of communication, and if hy subsidising we can improve, and give greater facilities and greator speed, trade will probably follow; but whatever may be done in the way of sub- sidising, of course I quite agree with Mr. Fuller and others who have spoken, should be retained in the hands of those who subsidiso to fix power the maximum rates of freight. Freight rates, of course, as Mr. Fuller said, are what we want particularly to keep down. The rings are keeping them up, and we want to keep them down. I know what Mr. Fuller said with regard to German steamers applying to Natal is perfectly correct. They are not only subsidised, but they have through rates from inland towns in Germany for German goods, which render it impossible almost for English goods to compote with those German goods when they are landed in South Africa. I do not know what subsidies are granted by the Imperial Govern- ment to the mail steamers which are subsidised by the Colonies, whether the Imperial Government simply pays so much by weight of mails carried, or so much, per letter.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: Both.
Sir ALBERT HIME: And lump sum subsidies.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: Yos, in some cases.
Sir ALBERT HIME: Then it is a question, of course, how far the Imporial Government will be prepared to assist the Colonies in increasing the subsidies with the view to getting the control of better steamers, faster communication and control of the rates of freight. If by additional subsidies we can control the rates of freight and have improved means of communication then I think it is well worthy of our consideration whether we could not join with the Imperial Government, or whether the Imperial Government should not join with the Colonies in increasing the subsidies with the view of getting increased facilities and controlling the charges for freight. Of course the rings are now controlling the charges for freight altogether. They are exceedingly high, and I think it will be to the advantage of British trade generally if we could bring down those rates for the conveyance of goods between the various parts of the British Empire.
Sir ROBERT BOND: Mr. Chairman, I have very little to say on this question, because the Colony which I represent is not likely to be directly concerned therein, and I might observe that my silence in regard to the question of preferential tariffs which was previously under discussion was owing to the fact that the Colony's position renders the question one that I could not enter into. The trade between this country and Newfoundland is not such as would warrant the Colony in expecting that His Majesty's Government will subsidise a line of steamers in connexion with it, and our only hope is that the natural position that Newfoundland occupies may induce shipowners to take advantage of it, as the connecting link between this country and America.
With regard to the question of subsidising steamers for freight purposes, such would appear to point to two distinct subsidies, for the time seems to have arrived when mails must be provided for apart from froight, it being regarded as impossible to combine speed with freight capacity. The advantage likely to accrue to the Mother Country from subsidising a mail service, I should be inclined to view from another aspect, namely, the mercantile naval reserve. At the present time we know that the United States are holding out most liberal inducements towards shipbuilding, and also to induce their own people to join the mercantile marine, with a view to the future manning of the Navy, and it occurs to me that it may be a very great advantage for His Majesty's Government to hold out inducements towards the establishment of British lines of communication with the view to commanding the personnel or the manning of the steamers that run between the various Colonies so that in case of necessity those who are engaged on board those ships might be used for manning the Navy.
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The SECRETARY OF STATE: I have ventured to draft two rosclutions, which, I think, will carry out the views which have been oxpressed. I will read them to the Conference, and see whether that is so. The first is:—
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That it is desirablo that in view of the great extension of foreign subsidies to shipping. the position of the mail service between different "parts of the Empire should be reviewed by the representatives of the respective Governments, and that when necessary to meet foreign competition the charactor of the services should be improved and "the subsidies increased. In all such cases provision should be inserted "in the contracts to prevent excessive freights or any preference in "favour of foreigners."
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: You will send it round before the next moeting of the Conference?
The SECRETARY OF STATE: I will do so. I will read is this :-
**
Then the second resolution
'That it is desirable that the attention of the Governments of the "Colonies and of the United Kingdom should be called to the present, **state of the navigation laws in the Empire and in other countries, and to the advisability of refusing the privileges of coast-wise trade to those countries in which this trade is confinod to ships of their own "nationality."
I will circulate that as well.
Sir WILFRIÐ LAURIER: I think so.
The SECRETARY OF STATE! Then, as regards our next meeting, I am sorry to say that a Cabinet has been called for to-morrow morning, and therefore it will be impossible for me to attend. Would Thursday under those circumstances suit?
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: It would suit us.
Mr. SEDDON: We were to see the wireless telography experiments on Thursday. They were postponed from last week to meet the convenience of members attending the Conference.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: Shall we postpone it till Friday?
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: We could go to Bisley in the afternoon just 88 well.
The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: Thursday will not do for me I am afraid.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: I would suggest that on Thursday we should take up the question of the military defence of Empire. A resolution has been given notice of upon that subject. Then I would ask Mr. Brodrick to be prosent.
"
Mr. SEDDON: I promised to go on Thursday to see the experiments with wireless telegraphy, because I wanted to see what could be done with a view to a connexion between Australia and New Zealand. I desiro really to see whether there is anything in it.
Sir EDMUND BARTON: It might be useful in connexion with the Pacific Cable. They have postponed it to suit our convenience.
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