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got it in very great detail, which makes it much more useful to manufacturers than any general expression of opinion would be, because in regard to each trade concerned there are special remarks and observations, which will be, of course, read by those who are specially interested in that trade. I do not see how we can get more by any further inquiry.
Mr. Seddon.] Might it not also be to report—for instance, as it is stated in some of these reports, particularly the Victorian report-as to the evasion of the law here of the Trade Marks Act and its application to the Colonies. now is going on, That would be a means of stopping that which goods of foreign manufacture being shipped to the Colonies as British goods.
Mr. Kingston.] I would have been delighted on this Conference to have received some precise Imperial suggestion as to the improvement of trade relations between England and the Colonies. I do not think we have had those in such a shape as we can deal with them, at least, not with the same advantage as if they were fully stated; and under those circumstances it seems possible that the inquiry suggested by Mr. Seddon might lead to their more complete definition with advantage to all concerned.
The Secretary of State.] Permit me to say that very definite suggestions have been before the Conference, and one of them has, to a certain extent, been approved, and another has been undoubtedly rejected by the general opinion of the Conference. The one which was rejected was the proposal for a Zollverein with free trade in the British Empire. The Colonies represented that that is at all events at the present time a counsel of perfection which they cannot contemplate as possible. Then the second proposal was that those Colonies which have a protective duty should be asked to consider whether they would not follow the example of Canada and give a preferential advantage to the mother country. No doubt either of those suggestions if they could be carried out, would materially improve the trade relations between the Colonies and the mother country.
Mr. Kingston.] I thought that the question of a Zollverein depended, to some extent, upon the nature of the tariff to be adopted towards the outside world.
The Secretary of State.] But that would be a matter which would require most careful inquiry; if the Colonies were prepared to accept as a principle that they would give Free Trade upon condition that some preference was given to them-
Mr. Kingston.] do not know, of course; as you say, there was no general opinion expressed in favour of that, but I think I left myself at liberty to deal with the question when we had details which we have not now before us, and which, as you have put it, are most important. A Zollverein might be of great value to the Colonies if the tariff against the outside world were of a certain nature.
The Secretary of State.] Oh, certainly.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] At present there is no disposition in England to give up Free Trade, and no disposition in the Colonies to give up Protection.
Mr. Kingston.] There might be reciprocity between the two giving up or reducing duties in favour of the Colonies and the other raising them against foreigners.
Mr. Seddon.] Might not this help the Zollverein when we come to discuss the whole question again with the information supplied by the commission : it might be material when we meet again.
The Secretary of State.] If you appointed a committee to inquire into the possibility of a Zollverein of the British Empire that no doubt would be a definite subject and a new subject, which has never hitherto been inquired into. That would be a totally different thing from a general proposal to inquire into the whole question of trade relations.
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Mr. Kingston.] Would not that include it?
The Secretary of State.] And the only objection I would raise to that is that I think the discussions at this conference have shown that the Colonies are not ripe for such a discussion. Unless there was a universal or practically a universal feeling on the part of the Colonies that such a discussion would lead to useful results, I think it would be highly undesirable to raise the question prematurely. Is not that your opinion, Sir Wilfrid ?
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] Clearly.
Mr. Kingston.] It appears to me to depend so much on details that it might be worth inquiry.
The Secretary of State.] But we could not enter upon an enormous question of that kind, unless we were assured that all the Colonies, or at all events the most important of them, took the same view upon the subject. Now we know from Sir Wilfrid Laurier and I think from Sir Gordon Sprigg that their Colonies are not prepared to consider a question of that kind at the moment.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] I do not think anybody is from the Colonies. matter of fact, it is not only Canada and the Cape.
As a
The Secretary of State.] Certainly New South Wales is not, and under those circumstances it would be dangerous, I think, to raise a question of that kind. It would do more harm than good to raise it at a period when we know beforehand that some of the most important Colonies would stand aloof.
Mr. Kingston.] I still think that the getting of information on the point and the making of suggestions would not be dangerous, but I must in this defer to your judgment.
The Secretary of State.] That is rather a question for speeches and for essays upon the subject, of which, of course, there will be many. There have been some already, but I think public opinion has to be formed before the detailed inquiry could be undertaken.
Mr. Kingston.] If the commission were appointed in the mode suggested by Mr. Seddon, for the purpose of considering simply the question of fostering trade relationship between the mother country and the Colonies, I am perfectly prepared to vote for it.
The Secretary of State.] Mr. Seddon, what do you wish in regard to this? Mr. Seddon.] You seem to have a strong objection to inquiry and against inquiry. I have sent the recommendation on from the other Colonies.
The Secretary of State.] Would you leave it where it stands after the Hobart conference.
Mr. Seddon.] My proposal is, of course--the thing is this, we have already
on our minutes the question of close relationship and I want to get something definite on our minutes.
Sir John Forrest.] The evidence.
Mr. Seddon.] The evidence will not be printed; what we have said will not be printed; it will only be a result, and there will be no resolution passed.
Sir John Forrest.] There was a resolution passed.
Mr. Seddon.] That is only in regard to the denunciation of the treaties.
Sir John Forrest.] No, the preference.
The Secretary of State.] Yes.
Sir Hugh Nelson.] We passed a resolution.
Mr. Kingston.] That we would consult our colleagues.
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