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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
PELEIC.O. 885
6
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
2 December 1896.]
vate
Mr. PLAYFORD.
Chairman-continued. petes with a work already undertaken, con- structed, and in working order by private individuals, that compensation to those pri- individuals for loss naturally follows. At the Sydney Conference the position taken up with regard to the Colony of South Australia is clearly laid down in one of the resolutions which they passed, so far as South Australia is con- cerned. In their seventh resolution they say, "That in the opinion of this Conference, in con- "sideration of South Australia joining with the "other contributing colonies in the Pacific cable "project, they would be willing, jointly with "Great Britain, to guarantee that colony against "further loss in connection with their trans-con- "tinental line in consequence of the construction "of the new cable." There they recognise, at all events, the right of the Colony of South Australia to be guarded against loss if this cable is con- structed at the expense of the Governments. So
far as the position taken up by, say, the Imperial Government, I think that is exceedingly plain from a statement made by the late Mr. Raikes, the Postmaster General at the time in the Govern- ment of Lord Salisbury in 1887, in which he said as follows on this very point:-" Regarding the "Pacific scheme as a competitor to the present "line, the late Mr. Raikes (then Postmaster "General), at the Imperial Conference in "1887, said, 'It would be a matter of extreme "difficulty, I think without precedent, for "the English Government itself to become "interested in such a scheme in such a way "as to constitute itself a competitor with an "existing commercial enterprise carried on by "citizens of the British Empire.'" Of course I leave the Eastern Extension Company to fight their own battles.
2714. I think we must have the exact wording
would of that Sydney resolution;
you mind reading it again. I want to get it on the notes? -The Sydney Conference resolution?
2715. Yes."That in the opinion of this "Conference, in consideration of South Australia "joining with the other contributing colonies in "the Pacific cable project, they would be willing, 'jointly with Great Britain, to guarantee that "colony against further loss in connection with "their trans-continental line in consequence of "the construction of the new cable."
L
Mr. Gillies.
2716. Have they passed any resolution that you have seen with reference to the Eastern Extension Company on the same terms?—No, none at all. They have never referred, so far as I can see, to the Eastern Extension Company in connection with it.
2717. I understand that that was in considera- tion of South Australia coming into the Austra- lasian compact, was it not ?-Yes, and on that point my Government say that if their loss is made good they will come into the compact and they will take their share of the loss and their share of the profit, whatever it may be, in the Pacific line, along with the rest of the Colonies. With regard to the peculiar position of South
[Continued.
Mr. Gillies-continued. Australia in the matter, I might say that we completed our line across the Continent in 1872. The length of it is 1,975 miles, that it has cost us 505,500, that we have worked it From 1872, and I have the actual figures up to the end of 1893, but I have not the succeeding figures-that up to 1893 our loss on the working of that line that is the payment of the interest and the working expenses-our 293,2921.
Mr. Jones.
loss was
2718. For how many years?-From 1872 to 1893, 21 years. The reasons for that are simply desired to make these: The colony never
any profit out of the working of this line, and they made their charges exceedingly low in the first instance, and also in the second instance, with the result that this loss has accrued. The benefit of that loss has been
shared, of course, partly by them, so far as
us there
to
a
messages coming to their own people is con- cerned, but the great benefit has been shared by the rest of the colonies, who have got their We messages so much cheaper at our loss, thought at the time that the increase of traffic would recoup us. Directly it began to recoup decreased an agitation for was charge, which was made, and which began deficit again, and now, mount up to a when we are recouping ourselves--we have made a profit last year, I have not heard the exact amount of that profit, a few thousands profit was made-now we are beginning to re- coup ourselves again for this previous loss, then again this Pacific cable comes in. But if we are promised that there will be no further we will be willing loss on the matter, of course to join with the other colonies in its construc-
tion.
Chairman.
2719. You do not get any advantage from the Western Australian business, I suppose -We do not get any advantage from the Western Australian business.
Mr. Murray.
2720. What was your share of the 98. 4d. rate? One shilling and one penny.
2721. That came down to 5d., and then it was raised to 7d. ?—Then it was raised to 7.
Sir Saul Samuel.
2722. Has the Western Australian land line acted in any way as an opposition line?--To a slight extent, but only to a slight extent, because an arrangement was come to with the Australian Government that by us paying them a sum of money, amounting, I think, to a thousand or two a year, I forget the exact sum, that the messages from the other colonies should go across our land line to the cable at Port Darwin, in preference to going round by way of Roebuck
We have paid them a certain Bay. of money for that concession that they made
sum
2 December 1896.]
Sir Saul Samuel-continued.
Mr. PLAYFORD.
to us on that particular line; the Roebuck Bay cable an: the land line in Western Australia is practically looked upon as a safeguard against the breaking down of our own land line in one case, or the breaking of the two cables which run from Banjawangi to Port Darwin in the other; we have a third cable, you see, and another land line.
Chairman.
or
2723. Then do I understand that a message handed in anywhere, say, at Melbourne Sydney or Brisbane, would be quite certain for your line-Yes, it would be quite certain to go over our line.
Sir Saul Samuel,
2724. That is, if your line was not inter- rupted-If our line was not interrupted. If our line was interrupted it would go across the other way.
Mr. Jones.
2725. Have you made any estimate what would be the loss to your colony in that respect if the Pacific cable were built ?-The loss would about one quarter, The propor be increased tion of the messages that would be diverted would amount to that. The position my Govern- ment take up is, therefore, that they contend that if a cable is laid competing with their land line, the Governments that allow the same should not allow the colony to suffer a loss. If that is done they will join the other colonies in laying the Pacific cable, and bear a fair share of the loss or profit.
Chairman.
2726. That, you are able to state officially, is the opinion of the Government ?—Yes; that 1 can state officially.
Sir Saul Samuel.
I
2727. That appears, does it not, in the pro- ceedings of the Sydney Conference? Yes. think the Minister for Education, Dr. Cockburn, promised that if they passed a resolution to that effect, they would join if that view was carried out. There is another point in connection with the Pacific cable that affects my colony very much. At the Conference to which I have pre- viously alluded, the one in Sydney, they passed a resolution to the effect—— I cannot see it just for the moment.
Mr. Gillies.
2728. That each colony should pay an equal amount? That is the idea. I would only point out in regard to the proposal that each colony should bear an equal share in the loss, and, I suppose they never talk about the gain-l sup- pose also the gain of the Pacific cable, that it is an unfair division of either the gain or the loss, for this reason: The populations of the colonies vary so considerably. New South Wales and
[Continued.
Mr. Gilles-continued. Victoria have populations exceeding 1,000,000; the colony of South Australia has only a popula tion of some 360,010; the colony of Tasmania has only a population of perhaps 150,000; the colony of Western Australia have possibly a little more. Hitherto, whenever we have worked together as colonies, such as on the question of Imperial Defence, when we agreed to pay a certain sum to the Imperial Government as a contribution towards the support of an Australian Squadron, it was then determined that each colony should hear a share in proportion to its population. When we have had any subsidy to be granted, which we did (we granted a subsidy to the Eastern Extension Company when they made their second cable in consequence of the very great interruptions that took place when they only had one cable), the Eastern Extension Company said, "Well, this cable can do all the **work, and laying an extra cable will only add " to our expenditure and create a loss.
6+
If
you will guarantee us against loss, well "and good." The colonies agreed to guaran- tee them against loss and they laid their second cable. The basis upon which the amount was divided was the basis of population again. Another point which occurred in con- nection with the colonies' defence, that is, such as fortifications, we agreed to fortify a big coal- ing station at King George's Sound, and the expense of those fortifications was agreed to be divided among the colonies on the basis of popu- lation. Supposing at the present day the whole of the colonies were federated: I only wish they were, so that we could only speak with one voice on this matter: supposing the whole of the colonies were federated, what would be the position ? Un- doubtedly the loss would be borne according to population, and my Government therefore very strongly object to the resolution that was carried at the Sydney Conference on that point.
2729. Were there any special reasons urged at the Conference at Sydney why they adopted, as you have indicated, this exceptional resolu- tion I have read carefully through the debates on the subject, and I can see no special
reason.
2730. You have not noticed whether there was any statement made as to certain colonies that they would get great advantage in conse- quence of the cable being nearer them than some of the other colonies, and the cost of carrying It would the messages would be less?—No. not apply in our case, because the Pacific cable would be no advantage to us in regard to nearness, because it would be further away. There is only one other point upon which I might say a word, and that is the question of Of course it is a very important one, and it appears to me that if you are going to connect with Australia it is a mistake to take a branch cable to New Zealand from Norfolk Island. If you go to Samoa you ought to go straight across to New Zealand and stop there, or go straight across to Australia and stop there. It appears to me that there is no justification for the expense of a line branching from Norfolk Island to connect New Zealand.
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route.
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