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132
26 November 1896.] The Marquess of TWEEDDALE, Mr. H. A. C. Saunders, [Continued.
and Mr. F. E. HESSE.
Sir Donald Smith-continued.
2111. Not so much for the volume of business? -No.
2112. As a safeguaril?-As for safety. For instance, one cable between Java and Australia would carry all the traffic that we have, whereas we have three cables now.
2113. You said, I think, that were you to undertake the laying of a cable across the Pacific you would go to points at which you would expect to get business: that is, you would go to Honolulu, Samoa, and other points ?-If we could.
2114. If you could. And you would not adhere strictly to British points?—No.
2115. May ask now, if you would not consider
that in time of war you would be safer having all your points on British territory than if you had a portion of them on foreign territory?— No, certainly. We should not think it any
safer.
2116. No advantage?—No advantage what
ever.
2117. May I ask why ?-Because it would be just as casy to cut the cable in deep water away from the landing stages as close to the stations; in fact, it would be easier, or safer rather, for the ship cutting the cable to go a little distance out of sight of the station than to do it close by.
2118. Would it be an easy thing for England to protect the Pacific Cable -There would have to be a great many ships to guard that enormions stretch of water;
miles. 8,000 roughly.
2119. How long would it take in two or three thousand fathoms of water to grapple and destroy a cable the shortest time?—Mr. Saunders.) It would take five or six hours, I should think, for the grapnel to sink.
2120. It could be done within the 24 hours easily-It could be done in the 24 hours, given sufficient gear, and a powerful vessel. There is no difficulty in breaking the cable.
2121. That while it might in time of peace be an advantage to have the cable all on British ground, you think that in time of war there would be no advantage as to the safety of the cable ?-I do not see the advantage at all, neither in peace time nor in war time.
2122. At no time ?-At no time.
2123. Merely a matter of sentiment ?-A matter of sentiment, pure and simple.
Chairman.
2124. Does that, in your opinion, apply to all cables everywhere ?-Yea.
2125. That, for instance, in a war with France, or we will say with Germany, there would be no possibility of disadvantage by having stations on French or German territory? If the French wished to interrupt the cable on other territory than French, they could do so so easily that there would be very little advantage.
2126. You take it for granted at once that all communication would cease by way of the
Chairman-continued.
country with which we are at war?--I think it is a fair assumption.
2127-8. But are there not other dangers besides those of destruction? Is it not possible to have one's messages real?-Considering that 90 per cent. of the messages are in code it would not be a very easy thing to do.
2129. Do you think that any foreign warship is adequate to find a cable 3,000 fathoms down and to cut it?-(Mr. Saunders.) Of course she would have to have special gear; she does not carry it with her, but if she wanted to break a cable she would have to have the necessary gear.
2130. And with the necessary gear any
captain of any man-of-war could do it? There
is no difficulty I think; he would know approxi-
nately the line of the cable.
2131. Is there absolutely no experience re- quired in lifting deep-sea cables-- Not in breaking a cable; in lifting it, yea.
2132. In cutting it?-No, assuming that he had got a sufficiently strong wire rope and grapnela, he would merely put his grapnels down, and either by hauling on it or steaming ahead, he would go through the cable.
2133. And any amateur Can make quite certain that he has got the cable and has not got a rock -Yes, it would be necessary to have Bome machinery to lift the cable for a certain distance to know whether he had it, but after catching it and getting the bight up for a certain distance, he would be almost sure of it. Besides,
there is always a certain amount of elasticity to decide whether he has got a rock or the cable.
2134. You would feel a little more confident about the entting if somebody who was trained was on board too ?—Oh, decidedly; because he would tell immediately that the cable is off the ground whether he had got it or not. He could fell by the feel of the rope.
Sir Donald Smith.
2135. Could not one of the ordinary warships of any nation carry the gear that is necessary for lifting and for cutting, without interfering materially with her armaments -They would not want to raise the cable very high, you see, and they have got very powerful steam winches, and with blocks and tackle adapted, I do not man-of-war would see any difficulty that experience in doing it, supposing she put it on to her steam windlass.
ก
2136. They would not require to carry special gear of a bulky character ?--Excepting the ropes and grapnels-ropes particularly-and they would be bulky.
2137. I think you mentioned that you had not two classes of tariffs as
to prices now, that is day and night tariffs?—(Mr. Hesse.) Only
tarith
one
2138: You are aware that on the land lines in America they have a lower tariff for night-
133
26 November 1896.] The Marquess of TWEEDDALE, Mr. H. A. C. Saunders, [Continued. and Mr. F. E. HESSE,
Sir Donald Smith-continued.
work? One tariff, of course, for ordinary messages; there is a lower tariff for Government
messages.
2139. Yes, I know, but for commercial, for ordinary messages?-For commercial work there is only one tariff
Mr. Gillies.
2139.• You were speaking about the amount of business I understood you to say that the in- crease of business was very great during the last year or two in consequence of the great increase of the business in Western Australia ?—Yes.
2140. Would you eliminate the annual in- crease in the case of Western Australia from the business otherwise, and just let me see how it stands, because you were assuming that the probabilities are that by-and-bye that increase of business with Western Australia may cease. I would like to see how the ordinary business stands, assuming that you eliminate that great increase from Western Australia ?—Roughly speaking- have a paper here which can refer to in a minute-but roughly speaking, the Western Australian traffic was, I think, 28 per
cent. of the increase in 1895 over 1894.
2141. That is to say, you gave the returns for 1893, 1894, and 1895. The return for 1894 was less by nearly 100,000 words than in 1893? -Yes,
2142. And then in 1895 the return is 1,948,000 words?--That is so.
2143. Well. I woukl like to know; you say it is 28 per cent. of the increase?—Forty-seven is the whole increase.
I
2144. The increase from 1894 ?—Oh, yes. have the figures here in another form. The total increase that year was 47 per cent., of which West, Australia's traffic represented 2×62.
2145. Of that increase? Of that increase. South Australia was 2·60; Victoria, 7-24, but the previous year there was a decrease in Victorian traffic of over 8 per cent,, so it was practically stationary, In New South Wales in 1894 there was a decrease of 7 per cent., but an increase of 5 in 1895. Queensland was about stationary; Tasmania the same,
2146. What would the result be if the increase of Western Australia, instead of being 2% per cent. of the gross increase, was only - you have the normal increase; what was Western Aus- tralia's normal increase before this excessive in crease took place? It was only 2-10 for the year before. The year before that there was
a decrease of '28.
2147. If you strike an average and only take the ordinary increase for Western Australin, you will still have a very large increase in the course of the year! The West Australian traffic be- fore 1894 was infinitesimal; it was not more than one-half per cent of the whole trabe. is quite a new traffic.
It
2148. I would like to know exactly if that vast increase had not taken place in Western Australia at all-leaving that out of considera-
Mr. Gillies-continued.
tion, what the gross increase over the year pre- vion-ly would be -Just under 20 per cent, as compared with 1894.
2149. I must ask you to go back to the calcu- lation you made with reference to the capacity of the cable to send messages, and you selectedl one part of it, and that is the longest stretch that there is on that line?-Wề took four different cables to show the difference between the theoretical speed and the actual payable number of letters. We took one of the Aden- Bombay cables, one of the Aden-Suez, Aden- Zanzibar, and Penang-Madras to get at an average.
2150. Well, now, this is the one you told us. There is, apparently, a difference of opinion. I understood you to say, at one time, that what a cable would be able to carry you would only be able to send a little over two words a minute ; Vancouver to Fanning Island?—I was speaking of the actual transmission of the traffic over the existing system.
2151. Exactly; but you were saying at the same time you were illustrating what the capacity of this cable would be, especially that portion of it from Vancouver to Fanning Island? -Yes.
2152. Being such a long stretch ?—Yes, with a certain core.
2153. And that core was ?--Six hundred and fifty pounds of copper with 400 lbs. of gutta- percha.
2151. That is what you consider the strongest core is? The largest core that could be used for that long stretch of cable.
2155. And you were calculating the number of words we would be able to senil along that portion of the line?-About two per minute.
2156. Would you be good enough to tell me how many words at that speed would get through this cable from Vancouver Island to Australia in a year? What work would it do: what work would it represent in the shape of work? For instance, what you have done with your cables. You have carried last year 1,940,000 words; you have put through your cables ?—Yes.
2157. Well, how many would that cable carry at the rate that you have mentioned, at a little over two words per minute?—If it had the traffic to carry, of course?
2158, But if that is all it could do, I want to make it plain what your opinion is as to the capacity of the cable for carrying About a million words as the very maximum,
2159. How many hours a day are you giving ; 15 hours - Taking the whole 24 hours.
2160. Do you mean to say it could work the whole of the 24 hours?-If there were traffic, yes.
2161. You are taking 24 hours per day if there were traffic; and then the utmost capacity of the cable is one million words — About one million words; I am giving you rough figures, of course.
2162. Oh, yes, yes. 1 will take that for granted. One million words, and the cable could not do any more except under the duplex system ?-Except under the duplex working.
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