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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- | COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
17 November 1896.]
Mr. SMITH.
Chairman continued. company great stress is laid on the question of slack in this long section ?—Yes.
731. How much per cent. of the slack do you estimate would probably be required ?-Re- quired to be laid or to take for contingencies?
732. To take for contingencies?—I should think not less than 15 per cent.
733. But when it came to actual laying do you think that as much as that would actually be found necessary?—No; I do not think that more than 7 or 8 per cent. would be necessary. Of course it would be impossible in 3,000 fathomis to pick a cable up with what we call a bight; we would want such an enormous amount of slack that you would increase the length of the cable so much that it would be impossible to work through it.
734. I understood from your answer just now that you admitted the use of the system of paying out the wire at the same time might give a fairly accurate contour of the bottom of the ocean, but your objection to relying on that system without a previous survey was that it might take you unnecessarily up and down hill, so to say?—Yes; I do not see how it is going to prevent you laying a cable over a submarine mountain.
735. You know the mountain is there and you would prefer to avoid the mountain if pos- sible?—Yes, to go round it if possible.
736. But suppose you were laying a cable by this wire system without a survey, and you found from the contour of the bottom that the apparatus showed that
you you were going up a mountain and down a mountain, would you not then and there be able to take a few soundings and deviate to one side or another 1-It would require another ship to do that; you could not do it whilst you were paying out unless you cut the cable and buoyed it.
737. You would then have to cut the cable and buoy it if you used one ship only, or you would require a second ship for emergencies like that?
Yes.
738. But given a second ship for such a pur- pose, you could work as you went in that way?— It would be very difficult, because it would take so long to take soundings in 3,000 fathoms, that your paying-out ship would have to be stopped at the time and be hanging on to the cable, which would be dangerous to the cable.
739. That is a dangerous operation ?—Yes. 740. How long does it take in fairly moderate weather to take a sounding in 3,000 fathoms? In 3,000 fathoms I should think it would take three-quarters of an hour, to stop ship, pay out Bounding wire, and pick it up again.
741. The operation, I suppose, in calm weather might be safely done, but there would be risk if the weather became at all stormy ?-I think it would be very risky if you had to buoy your cable in 3,000 fathoms at any time.
742. I suppose that we may take it for certain that a cable must lie on the bottom?—Yes.
743. And you would never leave it knowingly across from one ridge to another of any great length ?—No.
744. Have you any observations to offer on the routes, on the alternative routes from Van-
Chairman-continued.
[Continued.
couver to Australia ?--It seems to me that south of the Fiji Islands the bottom is fairly uneven. There are a great many soundings there. I noticed rocks and also positions doubtful, and so on. There seemed to be a great many sub- marine mountains there. I think there ought to be a very careful survey.
745. From Fiji to Australia ?—Yes.
746. Is not that portion of the proposed route already surveyed ?—Yes, it is surveyed, but there are so many of these submarine mountains that they may have missed some of them in their survey. I doubt if the soundings are sufficiently near; there might be other submarine mountains that would not be shown on the chart.
747. That is a general precaution that would apply to all the sections south of Fanning Island or Honolulu, for instance?—Yes.
748, Now the Dominion Government called for tenders in 1894, did they not ?—Yes, I think it was in October 1894.
749. Under Forms A, B, and C ? Yes. 750. I
that Form A was:- may remind you "The cable to be owned and controlled by "Government, to be worked under Government "authority, and to be kept in repair by the con- "tractor for three
Form B was :-" The years. "cable to be owned, maintained, and worked "by a company under a fixed subsidy for a term
of years."
Form (was:-"The cable to he owned, maintained, and worked by a company "under a Government guarantee"?—Yes.
751. And eight alternative routes were given for the consideration of tenderers?--Yes.
751. Your firm did not tender at all under Forms B and C-No.
752. Why I do not think I can give you much information about that, because that was purely the financial part of the business, and I should not have anything to do with that.
753. Your firm did tender for Form A, all routes? Yes.
754. The tender for the Fanning Island route was for 1,826,000%; that was so, was it not ?— Yes.
755. If you were tendering again at the pre- sent moment, approximately, would the tender be the same? that is to say, has there been any change in prices that would make a very serious difference in the tender now ?-There has been a change in the prices of the different material, and I believe they are a little higher than they were in 1894, but I do not think it would make a great deal of difference to the contract.
756. What materials had your firm before you in order to enable them to make a tender at all? -We had to get quotations for the price of iron wire, hemp, gutta-percha, and all the materials
used in the cable.
757. Yes, but I inean about the difficulties of the route ?-We could only go by the charts in that matter.
758. And although you think a eurvey is in- dispensable to the actual laying of the cable, yet you think the survey that existed was sufficient to enable you to make a tender ?—Yes.
759. What is the extreme depth that you expect to find on that route?-I think it was
17 November 1896.]
Mr. SMITH.
Chairman-continued. about 3,400 fathoms between Fanning Island and Vancouver.
760. And are you fairly confident that there is no greater depth than that ?—Yes. I think that there is no greater depth than that.
761. Now can you divide your tender into the portion that was for making and laying, the portion that was for stations and equipment, and the portion which was for repairs and maintenance for three years? It could be divided; we could give separate tenders for each.
762. You cannot tell the Committee now?-
No, I could not now. I have not the figures
before me.
763. Can you not even tell me what you con- sider the proportion for maintenance and repairs for three years, came to; what was the estimate of the annual repairs and maintenance of the cable? As far as I remember that was rather an unknown quantity, on account of the quantity of cable that might have to be used in the repairs.
764. And you can give the Committee no in- formation on that subject ?-No.
765. Now, your tender when it was sent in, was that a firm offer ?-Ob, yes.
766. You were prepared to take over the con- tract at once if it had been signed?—Yes, at
once.
767. And to have completed any survey that was necessary yourselves? Yes I think that wat in the contract, the survey.
768. The survey was included in the making and laying? Yes.
Mr. Jones.
769. Have you any idea as to the probable receipts of which you have seen the estimates made by Mr. Fleming-No, I have not gone into that at all.
770. Your experience has not enabled you to judge on that point?—No.
Mr. Murray.
771. I believe, as a matter of fact, that your firm did estimate the cost of maintenance at 115,000 a year for those three years. Is that an estimate which you think ought to run through the whole of the life of the cable?-That I could not say; it was for three years, was it
not?
772. Yes; but is that the normal cost of maintaining the cable or the cost for the first three years? You see it would depend very much upon the size of the ships that would be em- ployed. I think we tendered for two repairing ships.
773. Have you got any repairing ships now? -No, they would have to be built.
774. Have you none of your own?-No. 775. When you lay a cable do you build a ship on purpose?—We charter a ship and fit her
up.
776. What is the expense of maintenance be- sides the ship and the new cable ?—There is no other expense except the wear and tear of the machinery and the ship itself.
[Continued.
Mr. Murray-continued. 777. Therefore it is simply the cost of keeping the ship or two ships and the necessary cable that is wanted?--Yes; then, of course, there is loss of waterial and loss by breaking, and buoys, and different telegraph material, that it is rather hard to state what it would be.
778. What was the weight of the cable that you had tendered for?-There were so many different types. be about two tone a mile.
1 think the deep-sea type would
779. Yes; what was the weight of the core? percha. That was to be, I think, for 12 words a -About 650 lbs. copper and 400 lbs. gutta-
minute.
780. And that is the type that you recommend, is it? Yes.
15.
781. For 12 words a minute?-I think it was 12 words a minute. We quoted for two; 12 and 782-3. How have you satisfied yourselves that that would produce the 12 words a minute?- We based it upon the Atlantic cable which was laid about three years ago.
784. By you?-No; by the Telegraph Con- struction and Maintenance Company.
785. What is the most recent cable you have laid yourselves?-The most recent cable was the one between the Bahamas and Florida. That. was only a short cable of 230 miles.
786. Did you lay the Halifax and Bermuda cable?—Yes.
787. Do you remember what the weight of that was-The weight of the core ?
788. The weight of the core and insulator.- It was 120 lbs. copper and 150 lbs. gutta- percha.
789. And what speed did that give?--Oh, that gave almost unlimited speed; it is only 800 miles long.
790. What do you call au unlimited speed- 40 or 50 words ?--Oh, yes, it would do quite that.
Chairman.
791. Mr. Smith, you said just now, in answer to me, that the slack of the cable when laid would come to about seven or eight per cent. ? -I thought that would be quite sufficient for laying.
792. Now do you know, as a matter of fact any cable that has been laid at great depth, say, under the Atlantic, with such a percentage of slack as that?--Yes, I do. I laid a cable from Martinique to Porto Plata,
a great deal of it in about 2,000 fathoms, and there was about seven to eight per cent. of slack.
793. But would most of the Atlantic cables have less than 10 per cent. of slack?-I should not think they would.
794. This one that you laid has a distinctly less percentage of slack than most of them?-1 do not know that it has the most; it has that
per- centage of slack, seven or eight per cent.
795. Is that owing to any superior method of laying that you have invented?-No; only owing to the careful watching of the breaks when they
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