PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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C.O. 885
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ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
17 November 1896.]
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Mr. SIEMENS.
Sir Donald Smith-continued. new cable ?—Well, in this pamphlet, I did not want to express my opinion at all, and therefore I went on the information, which, as you say,
is available for everybody, and which in this par- ticular instance was collected by Mr. Henniker Heaton preferably, and as I said yesterday, I believe the Pacific cable would be under the average conditions of the existing cables, and therefore might be expected to earn the average
amount.
701. And that the increased volume of busi- ness with America would add considerably to the business and to the profits of the new cable? -Oh, no. Taking the average you see that
would be taken into consideration.
Mr. Gillies.
702. Do you know any cases, other things being equal, of a new line starting into com- petition with an old line; and if so, can you say what proportion of the traffic the new one got immediately after it had started compared with the old one?-I have not the in- formation at my disposal, but I think I could get that for you with regard to the Commercial Company; for instance, when they started first in 1883 in opposition to the Cable Ring,
That
is possible; but as far as I recollect they got at once a very good proportion of the traffic, be- cause they laid themselves out to deliver their messages very quickly, and they had arranged their cables to enter New York city itself, so that they were in a position to offer the public something better than the existing companies, and that, of course, would be a great desideratum in the case of the Pacific cable; that they could make suitable arrangements-I need not go into what to have their messages quickly de- livered, and so on, and make the thing attractive. Then they can count on a given proportion of the traffic very soon, but, of course, you must not forget that at the sarae time the old com- panies would not sit still; they would also do their best. Of course the public would benefit in that way.
703. It does not appear to me that it appeared to be a sort of natural thing that peopic jumped to the conclusion that because two people were fighting for the same thing they were likely to "divide the apple in two"?-You will find I have not said that in this pamphlet. I have not based my calculations at all on the figures which are given by the Eastern Company, but I have simply said what I have repeated already a good many times-I consider thie Pacific cable would work under average conditions, and would get I have not said anything average earninga. about "taking half away."
704. I thought that was the view you accepted when you were making quotations from Mr. Henniker Heaton, and the ideas of Mr. Flem- ing ? No, no; you see Mr. Henniker Heaton says that
705. He does not go on the principle of a half, a quarter, or any given proportion; he goca on the principle of the general cost-the results?— Yes; he takes the whole of the cables of the
[Continued.
17 November 1896.]
Mr. Gillies--continued. world, and he says they cost 3507, and the revenue is 3.17.
706. I suppose if you had a cable going across a desert you would not run an average with a cable that might be going from London to Paris and Vienna, where there would be lots of work to do I think, Mr. Gillies, yours is a wrong case. If it goes across a desert it might connect two very important places, and have a good traffic.
707. The importance of a cable depends on the communication, and the opportunities it gives to a great body of people-a great crowd who are doing business?-Oh, certainly; but do you not think that Canada and the United States are very good places to connect with Australia?
708. Oh, I am not denying that at all; you can always make comparisons of that kind because some cables would naturally from their position be doing a big business, and other cables from their position would be or no business. What is the doing little relation between them, that you should be able to strike a common average? That is what struck me in your evidence yesterday in quoting Mr. Henniker Heaton.-Well, I alluded yester- day also to the great difficulty of estimating the
revenue.
It is quite impossible. I told you us a small comparison-the revenue of the Amazon cable is derived from local traffic when it was expected that it would be derived from inter- national traffic, and in that way you may say, "Well, surely the Fiji Islands have not much traffic in telegraphing, and there is not much commerce going on at present between Canada and the United States and Australia. There will be not much traffic there, it will be chiefly the traffic to England itself which will pay." Well, perhaps you will find you are entirely mistaken, that the Canadian Pacific cable in a few years will be taken up entirely with messages to America, and the European messages will go through the Eastern as before.
709. But will that start from the first year? -No, no, of course not. You must give the trade time to adjust itself; it cannot do it at
once.
710. What time do you think would be reason- able to expect anything like a fair development of the traffic?-Oh, I should not like to say, be- cause you see I think all these financial diffi- culties and commercial difficulties in the whole world are brought about by the extension of the cable system, and people generally have not settled down quite to the new conditions. You see the connection with India was made in 1870 or so, and it has taken 26 years almost before the people have now established a new way of doing business by cable, and so on; but the traffic to India developed sooner, in two or three years; it may be two or three years, or it may be four years.
711. Now with reference to being in a posi- tion to lay a cable, are you of opinion that there is sufficient information at your disposal to enable you to undertake the work of laying such a cable as you speak of, without any apprehension at all? Yes; certainly I would consider it abso- lutely safe.
Mr. Gillies-continued.
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Mr. SIEMENS.
712. That is taking the route that is indicated for this cable, No. 1?--Yes; from Vancouver to Fanning Island, Fanning Island to Fiji, Fiji to Norfolk Island, Norfolk Island to New Zealand, Norfolk Island to Tweedmouth.
713. Of course you are aware that in 1887 in London there were strong expressions of opinion by the Conference that the first thing to do was to make a thorough examination ?-Perfectly. That is also a part of this method, I think, which I described yesterday, which enables u8 to take the laying of a cable through a sea where we only know the maximum depth, for which we have to construct our cable. I think I explained at length yesterday how the slack ought to be evenly distributed, and so
on.
714. Was that the kind of case that the depth had been discovered, namely, of something like 5,000 fathoms ?-It would certainly apply to that depth, but that depth is in a different spot- that is far away.
715. Yea; but you would not be in a position to say no. That you are quite certain that there
Mr. Gillies-continued.
[Continued.
is nothing approaching a depth of that kind on any part of the route where you are expected to lay the cable -Well, naturally, in strictly legal sense, I am not quite sure, but morally I am quite sure there will be nothing exceeding 3,500 fathoms on that route; but, of course, it may occur, but it would not matter, because our indicator would show it, and our cable would be able to stand it, therefore, we should not mind.
716. It would go down all that distance and lie on the bottom, and then rise on the other side? Oh, yes, there would be no difficulty about that.
Sir Donald Smith.] That is merely a question of slack.
Mr. Gillies.
717. It is a question of between five and ten miles?-Well, I mean 5,000 fathoms is five miles nautical, and you see, as I explained yesterday, this deep-sea cable can stand nine
miles.
The Witness withdrew.
Mr. THEOPHILUS SMITH, of the Henley Telegraph Company, called in; and Examined.
Chairman.
718. MR. SMITH, you represent the Henley Telegraph Company?—Yes.
719. May I ask your position on it?—I am their Chief Submarine Cable Engineer.
720. Can you inform the Committee of some of your principal experiences in laying sub- marine cables ?—Yes. I was articled to Bright and Clark, and as their assistant I was out dur- ing the laying of the 1869 Atlantic cable from Brest to St. Pierre, and from St. Pierre to Dux- bury.
After that I was out for them as assis-
tant laying the Suez to Aden, and Aden to Bombay section. I also have been in charge of laying the cable from Key West to Florida, and from Key West to Havana, and from the Bahamas to Florida, and from Martinique to Porto Plata, and from Cayenne to Vizeu in the Brazils, and cables along the coast of Tunis, from Sousa to Sfax, Djerba and Gabes, and also in the Gulf of Mexico for the Silvertown Com- pany. I laid cables from Vera Cruz to Contza- coalcos, and from Galveston to Tanpice. Those are some of the principal cables I have been out with; and in the Canary Islands I have also laid cables, and cables along the west coast of Africa, and a cable from Aden to Zanzibar.
721. You are aware of the general nature of the proposal which this Committee is instructed to report upon ?—Yes.
722. The first question which is referred to us is, is a cable from Vancouver to either Fanning Island or one or other of the alternate routes practicable, technically ?-Yes, I believe
80.
Chairman-continued.
723. I presume the chief difficulties are con- nected with the depth of the ocean in that part of the Pacific, and with the greatness of the span, say, from Vancouver to Fanning Island? Yes.
724. Are you of opinion that either of those difficulties are insuperable?-No; I think the proposals are quite feasible.
725. How far has the route from Vancouver, say, to Fanning Island, been surveyed?—I think very imperfectly. As far as remember, there is a good line of soundings from San Francisco to Honolulu, but north of that I think there are very few soundings.
726. Before a cable could be laid from Van- couver to Fanning Island, are you of opinion that a preliminary careful survey of the route is absolutely indispensable?—Yes, I think it is.
727. Have you ever heard of a system by which, with a certain amount of general infor- mation as to the nature of the route, a cable can be safely laid without a preliminary survey?—I have heard of a system of paying out steel wire at the same time that the cable is paid out, and that
could accurately arrange your slack of you cable to that, so that you could lay what per- centage of slack would be required to a very small point, but I do not think that you could eventually get over inequalities of the ground.
728. You think that a survey is essential even if that system were in use ?-Even in that
case.
729. Have you ever had any personal experi- ence of that system ?--No.
730. In the memorandum furnished from your
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