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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
SECOND DAY.
MONDAY, 16TH NOVEMBER 1896.
PRESENT:
The Right Honourable The Earl OF SELBORNE, CHAIRMAN, Presiding.
The Hon. Sir Saul Samuel, K.C.M.G., C.B. The Hon. Sir DONALD SMITH, G.C.M.G.
The Hon. D. GILLIES. Mr. G. H. MURRAY, C.B.
Mr. W. H. MERCER, Secretary.
Mr. MATTHEW H. GRAY, called in; and Examined.
Chairman.
344. I THINK, Mr. Gray, you represent the Silvertown, or India-rubber, Ciutta-percha, and Telegraph Works Company?-1 am the en- gineer in charge of the Silvertown Company in the cable department. I do not represent the company actually; I represent them in the sub- marine telegraph engineering department.
345. You are the engineer in charge ?—I am, of the submarine department at the works.
346. But you are able to speak, I presume, of the views of the company on this matter?- I can as far as the majority of technical points are concerned.
347. May I ask what experience, in order that we may have it on record, you have had of submarine cables ?-Well, since about 1882 I have been engaged in that work altogether.
348. And what cables have you been engaged upon ?--I was present during the laying of cables from Spain to Senegal, touching at the Canary Islands, and which run south from Senegal to Sierra Leone, landing at Portuguese Guinea and the Gambia, from whence a branch was run to the Cape de Verde Islands. Cables along the Gold Coast connecting Grand Bassam and Accra with Dahomey and the Islands of San Thomé and Principe in the Bight of Benin; from whence to the Gaboon and south to Mossamedes ; also cables along the Brazilian coast. Pernam- buco to Santos, calling at Bahia and Rio de Janeiro, and various cables along the West Coast of America, extending from Valparaiso to Mexico, touching at Peru, Ecuador, Panama, Nicaragua, San Salvador, and Guatemala. Besides laying various short cables, the last from England to Germany for the combined Govern- ments; in all some 16,000 nautical miles. In addition to the above I have also had experience in surveying and repairing work.
349. Have you had anything to do with any of the Atlantic cables?-With one Atlantic cable; that crossing the South Atlantic from Senegal to Fernando-Noronha and Pernambuco. I was not present at the laying of that cable, but I had a great deal to do with the construc- tion of it.
350. You are aware of the general features of the project that this Committee is appointed to consider ?--Yes.
Chairman-continued.
351. The first reference to this Committee is to report how far this Pacific cable is technically practicable. I presume that the main difficulties are connected with the depth, the absence of survey, and the length of span from Vancouver, say, to Fanning Island ?-Those are the principal points to consider. Yes, I should say,
352. Can you tell the Committee what is supposed to be the greatest depth met with on that route? There is a depth, I think, of-it depends on the route chosen, of course, but there is a depth that runs up to about 3,200 fathoms.
353. How far has this route been surveyed? -It is rather difficult to answer specifically. It has been surveyed generally, but the southern parts, south of the Sandwich Islands, are well surveyed. 1 imagine the northern part has been principally done by the American Govern- ment, but their surveys do not throw very it Vancouver-long- considerable light upon lulu or Vancouver-Fanning routes; there is n very large number of soundings taken by the American Government.
;
354. Would you consider that the route has been sufficiently surveyed for the purpose of laying a cable ?--Sufficiently surveyed for the purpose of estimating; doubtless some other soundings would be necessary. These could be done by the contractor.
355. What is the greatest depth that any existing cable is laid at ?--The last Commercial Company's cable, laid in 1894, in one place at least, is laid in over 3,000 fathoms.
356. Is it absolutely necessary that a cable should lie on the bottom of the ocean?--Yes.
357. It is? Yes, excepting for small dis- tances; a foot or two.
358. What sort of distance would you con- sider it safe to allow a cable to lie across a valley, say from height to height? That would depend altogether on the nature of the edges of the valley, and the shape of them, and also on the breaking strain of the cable, and also whether there was any movement of the sea at that point, current.
359. Do you consider a survey an indispen- sable preliminary to laying a cable ?—The fuller the survey the better, but absolutely without any it would be impossible to estimate the type
of cable; so some survey is necessary.
16 November 1896.]
Chairman-continued.
Mr. M. H. GRAY.
360. Have you ever laid a cable without a previous careful survey of the whole route ?-No. 361. What would be the span, approximately, from Vancouver to Fanning Island?From Vancouver to Fanning Island the distance over- ground is 3,232 knots, nautical miles.
362. What is the present largest span that exists? The present largest span is, I believe, The Direct United States, 2,564 miles. There is also another from Brest to St. Pierre, 2,717 miles. 363. And you believe that to be the longest span that exists?-As far as I know.
364. That, of course, includes slack, or is that the surface length?- Including slack.
365. Including slack ?--Yes.
366. Therefore to make a proper comparison of the proposed span we should have to include slack in that?-Yes, we should have to include it in that.
367. And that would amount to? —— I should estimate 15 per cent. for the laying, but after the cable is laid, it should have not more than 10 per cent. of slack in addition to the over-ground distance.
368. Well, that would make it, according to a memorandum from the Telegraph Maintenance and Construction Company, 3,650 miles net nautical, with 10 per cent. of slack?-With 10 per
rent. of slack I make it 3,062 miles, Honolulu to Fiji; no, I am wrong, 3,560 make it, from Vancouver to Fanning.
369. Three thousand five hundred and sixty, and therefore we have to compare 3,560 with 2,717 ?-With 2,717.
370. That is what it would be, nearly 1,000 nautical miles further than the present longest span?--Yes: 800 about.
371. Is there any technical difficulty in sending messages over such a span as that?— No, I cannot see any.
372. Now as regards the route; have you any observations to offer ?-No; I cannot say that I have any as regards any given route.
373. Asto all the routes?-All the routes chosen. 374. From your point of view all the routes which have been suggested are equally practi- cable? Yes, I think so.
375. In 1894 the Dominion Government called for tenders?—Yes.
376. Under Forms A., B., and C.?—Yes. 377. Form A. was "Cable to be owned and controlled by Government, to be worked under Government authority, and to be kept in repair by the contractor for three years "? Yes.
378. Form B. was "The cable to be owned, maintained, and worked by a subsidised com- pany"? Yes.
379. Form C., "The cable to be owned, maintained, and worked by a company under a Government guarantee "? Yes.
380. The Dominion Government offered for the consideration of tenderers eight alternative routes ?—Yes.
381. The advertisement stated that as to the character of cables: "Proposals will describe the type of cables intended to be used on each section, and state the weight of conductors and Does the insulators per knot in each case."
[Continued.
Chairman-continued.
tender that your firm sent in specify exactly the type of cable proposed ?—Yes.
382. And you consider that in your tender you met every scientific requirement of such a cable?—Yes.
383. "Shore ends. The best description of landing cables must be employed at terminal points and all mid-stations. The proposals will describe the character, weight and length of ahore-end cables to be used in each case "?—Yea. 384. You complied with those conditions also?
-Yes.
385,"
Speeds; the calculated speeds for each section of the cable shall in no case be less than
12 words per minute. In your opinion, is a 12-word per minute cable a sufficiently good one?—It is simply a matter of what one requires. It is good, I should think, for the purpose. The more words you can send the better.
386. Have you ever laid a 12- word per tinute cable?—No; short distances.
387. What is the lowest rate you have ever laid-Fourteen words, I think; offhand.
388. Now your firm tendered for Form A., all routes ?--Yes.
389. Wae that a firm offer?—Yes; it was stated at the time it was made that it was a firm offer; it would have been accepted.
390. At the time if it had been accepted and
a contract signed you were prepared to construct that cable at once?-Distinctly.
391. I presume that prices have varied a little eince then? Yes. They have varied, and they are varying just now.
There is a French com- pany's cable being made under a French Govern- ment Guarantee. They will probably want about 550 tons of gutta percha, and that may make a difference in the market.
392. But apart from a temporary difference like that, are prices about the same as they were then ?--There is not very much change I think; but the market has fluctuated slightly on the question of gutta percha. I could not give an opinion, as, of course, there is a limited supply,
and brokers would know more about it than I could possibly know. I have not entered into that. 393. Your firm also estimated for Form C., all routes ?-Yee.
394. That was not a firm offer?-It was more in the shape of a suggestion than an offer.
395. Why were you able to make a firm offer for one alternative and not for the other ?-That
is a question I should prefer to be answered by perhaps my brother, who is a manager of the Com- pany just now. I could not give a reason for that.
396. Now take your tender for Form A., Route 1, that is the Vancouver-Fanning Island route. Your tender was for 1,517,0007.?--I be- lieve that is what it was, yes. I have not the figure with me; I cannot verify it. I believe that would come from Robert K. Gray, who is in the management. The figure was given in our letter, I know.
397. Is that the offer of your firm (showing document)?-Yes.
398. £. 1,517,000?—Yes.
399. Now what materials had your firm afforded to enable them to make such a firm offer as that?-We had the distance, the cost of
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