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301
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
6
EPEC.O. 885
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12 November 1896.]
Mr. Murray-continued.
Mr. FLEMING, C.M.G., C.E.
under Form 'C.,' that is, on the basis of a traffic guarantee. This company is unable to make a firm offer under this form."
298. They, however, submit an estimate, and their estimate for Route I. is 226,000l. a year?
-Yes.
299. Does not that strike you as rather a re- markable fact when taken in connection with their tender of 1,517,900. ?-Well, it is so long since I considered the matter that I cannot speak upon it definitely at this moment.
300. Your estimate of the necessary groas revenue is considerably less than that? To begin with.
301. It seems difficult to reconcile a require- ment of that kind with the amount for which they have tendered to contract, does it not?— Yes. I did not take a very favourable view of this estimate of theirs at the time; I remember that, but there is no occasion to say much about it, inasmuch as it was not a firm offer it was not a tender. The only real tenders were those for manufacturing, and the laying and maintaining the cable for three years; those were the only actual tenders received.
302. Of course, you can form no opinion yourself whether the cable specified for by the Silvertown Company would be effective?-Oh! I am satisfied from the figures given in the tender itself that it would be as effective as any of the other cables.
303. Do you remember what the weight of it was-The weight was, I think, a little heavier than that of Mr. Siemens, a very little, not much; they were practically alike.
304. There are heavier cables than they speci- fied for already laid, are there not?-I do not know that there are; I think it is about the heaviest.
I
but
be wrong, 305. Is it ?-I think so ; may it was a very heavy cable.
306. At any rate, you are satisfied that it is heavy enough for the exceptional distance?— Yes, and for the purpose of conveying 12 words per minute. They made a supplementary offer to lay a cable 50 per cent. better-14 words per minute for a sum of money, about 350,000Z. more for the whole line; 360,000l. perhaps.
307. In your estimate of expenditure I gre you have allowed nothing for replacing capital?— Have I not?
308. No. Your estimate was 30,000/ for working expenses, 50,000l. for repairs, 45,000. for interest? No, I suppose I left that to be dealt with in future when the profits accumulated sufficiently.
309. But would it not be prudent to begin your sinking fund as early as possible!-1 do not see that there would be any gain by it.
310. It would only make it all the larger if you did not? No, you could not make it larger than the revenue would admit.
311. Of course, if the sinking fund is to consist of the balance of revenue over expendi- ture it might have to wait some time? Well, my proposition was to carry all the revenue over expenditure to sinking fund.
Mr. Murray continued.
[Continued.
312. Yes; but supposing there is none, what is to happen to the sinking fund ?—You will be
no worse off.
313. You will be worse off to this extent, that you will have no sinking fund-Where is the sinking fund to come from in the first place?
314. I was asking you whether you had allowed for that?—No, it is not allowed for here.
315. Do you know what sinking fund will be required to replace one and a-half millions in 25 years I do not know at this moment.
316. It would be somewhere between 40,0007 and 50,0001. a year, I suppose ?—I do not know; I cannot tax my memory.
317. But ought you not to add something to your estimate of expenditure to cover that?— I think my way is a better way; to carry every-
you thing to sinking fund, everything that' not require for working expenses.
do
318. Yes, but suppose you have not got any- thing? Then you cannot carry it.
319. As to your rate, the Pacific cable is to get 23. a word?-That was the estimate.
320. And you think that, giving the Pacific Cable 2s., it would be possible to get a through rate of 3..?--I think so.
321. That allows 18. for the terminal charge in Great Britain, for crossing the Atlantic, cross- ing Canada, and the terminal charge in Australia; but I imagine that the Australian Government, the owners of the land lines in Canada, the owners of the Atlantic cables, and the Imperial Government would each expect something out of that 18., would they not?--Yes, and I think
they
think ls. a word is ample they would
get it.
to cover messages from Vancouver to the point of delivery in England.
322. Do you know what the present rate is for messages from Vancouver?-No; I cannot at this moment say what it is.
323. One shilling and sixpence ?—Yes, but I think if you were to bring a million messages to the telegraph company they would be quite pre- pared to do it for a much smaller figure, seeing that it would be all additional business to them.
324. Is the land line in Canada from Vancouver to the point where it would touch the Atlantic Cable the property of the Canadian Pacific Railway It is.
325. Absolutely ?—Yes. 326. Has the Government any control over it? -- None.
Sir Donald Smith, 327. Neither in time of war nor in time of peace? We have had no war.
328. Is there not another telegraph line besides the Canadian-l'acific line?—Yes, there is. There is the Western Union, terminating on the coast there.
Mr. Murray.
329. And calls at Vancouver ?—Yes. Vancouver there are two competing lines.
AL
330. Is the Canadian-Pacific Railway under any contract with other companies, with regard to messages passing over its line ?-Not that I know of.
12 November 1896.]
Mr. FLEMING, C.M.G., C.E.
Mr. Murray-continued. 331. It is entirely free ?--Yes. I might state to you that some years ago, I do not at the moment remember the occasion, I think it was in 1887, I had a letter from the President of the Canadian-Pacific Railway informing me that the company would be prepared then (it may be different now) to carry messages from Vancouver to the Atlantic Coast for 24. a word, five cents. At that time the charge across the Atlantic was 6d. a word, making it 84d. a word from Vancouver to England. Well, prices have risen somewhat since then, but I have allowed 1s. in place of 8¡d., and I think 18. is quite enough.
332. Do you mean that the different authorities concerned would be ready to take their share! of the Is., or that they ought to be ready?--I think so. I think that an arrangement could be inade with the companies to do it for 1s. from Van- Of course, I am couver to London; I think so. giving you my own opinion; I may be entirely wrong, but that is my opinion.
fl
333. That would imply a certain reduction on a single what they are getting now?- For message; but it is very different when you bring large addition to the business. The number of operatives would not be increased, or scarcely increased; the expenses would be just It would be all about the same as they are now. profit to them.
334. Is there ample spare cable power in the Atlantic?-Plenty; plenty of it.
335. They are not full of work ?—No. 336. What do you think is the effective carry- ing capacity of a 12-words a minute cable?
[Continued.
Mr. Murray-continued. Well, I am not prepared to answer that question; that would be better answered by one more familiar with electrical business than am myself.
337. It materially affects your estimate of possible revenue, does it not?-No; 1 think if you calculate it you will find that even a 12-word a minute cable would be able to do a much larger business than I have contemplated in these figures.
338. Contemplated at any period in your figures? Not at any future period; by the time the Pacific Cable was fully occupied, it would be a matter for consideration whether a second cable should not be laid..
339. You think, for instance, that a 12-word per minute cable would be practically able to earn 258,5001. gross, which is the figure you put down for 1907-Yes. I think that have suggested somewhere that instead of laying the 12-word per minute cable, an 18-word per minute cable should be laid.
340. Quite so, hut that would alter all your figures ?-If I have not done so, I do so now.
341. That, of course, would alter all your estimate of expenditure?-It would alter the estimate of expenditure somewhat; I do not know that it would alter the estimate very materially.
342. Cost and charges; well you would have more interest to pay.
Mr. Gillies.
343. Instead of 156,000 it is 188,000/.?— Yes.
The Witness withdrew.
Adjourned till Monday next, at Half-past Eleven.
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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
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