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T:།། ཤ། ། །
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885/26
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28
COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE.
8 December, 1919.3 „Lirut.-COL, R. E, DRAKE-BROCKMAN, D.§.O., M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P.
salaries, and no prospect of getting any future pro- motion.
920. Would you create administrative or senior posta simply for the sake of affording promotion ?—No, but I think if there were a greater number of them in those countries-and there is plenty of room for them in the countries I have served in-it would meet the case. For instance, in East Africa I should think that there might be a few more Senior Medi- cal Officers, especially when I left it. I am talking of when I left it; it has improved slightly now, but even now I doubt if it is sufficient.
921. They are administrative jobs, Senior Medical Officers, are they not?-In Somaliland it was.
922. Do you not think that that is open to the objection that there is quite a lot of competent Medical Officers, excellent Medical men, who have not the administrative gift?-Yes, they might refuse it pro- vided there was another line for them to go along.
923. It is a little difficult for Medical men and other men to realise that they have not the adminis trative gift?-I think so, but you have the same in the Army.
924. You do not think there would be any serious objection? Some men prefer administrative work; others prefer their Medical work; you will always get men for both.
925. Pensions are too low, you say; what would you regard as the pension a man should have after 20 years' service?-After 20 years' service it should be at least £1 a day; 1 should make it £400 a year.
926. Dr. Hood: Do you know tho conditions of service in West Africa?-Not at all.
927. Because I think after 20 years' service in the ordinary way the Medical Officer could retire on about £400. Now, with regard to private practice, I do not quite understand how Europeans would get on, say, in a big coast town like Lagos, for instance, where there are roughly 1,000 Europeans. You would not debar the Medical Staff from private practice in a case like that?-Oh no, you could not do it there if there were no other medical men, but I should think, if the Government Medical Officers did not get the practice, other Medical men might be attracted out to the country.
928. Take amali places where there are only 20 or 30 Europeans P-I would make the Senior Medical Officer see the cases, and the fees, if they were able to pay fees, should go into the Government.
929. Do you think that would be received favour- ably by ordinary Medical men P-It would be if they were continually interchangeable, Not if one Medical man always had to co the patients free, gratis, and
[Continued.
for nothing, whereas others out of the track of them were not seeing any.
930. Supposing there were 20 or 30 stations in tha Colony where there is private practice?--Where there are these 20 or 30 cases?
931. Yes? I do not think they would object to that; I do not think it is likely to bring in very much. 932. That is not my experience? What I had, as far as private practice is concerned, was just stoot what you have been mentioning, and I do not think it worried me in the slightest, and I know it did not worry my colleagues who had the patients; in fact, I think both of us tried to avoid the private patients as a rule because we had too much to do.
999. Except that private practice very often induces a man to come into the Service; do you not think so?-Most certainly, to a certain extent in East Africa. The Senior Surgeon in Nairobi, I am told, has been making several hundreds a year. He doubtless thinks this is 8 magnificent Bervice where you get this sort of thing. But there are only one or two stations in these countries where you can make a practice anything like that. I happen to know a case where an officer was left throughout the whole of his stay in one big town in East Africa. He made sufficient by private practice alone to flick his bands in the face of the Colonial Office, because he could retire on the comfortable dividends of his sav ings, whereas the other men all over the country there had no private practice at all. There are various places in Uganda and East Africa now where men can make considerable private practice, and usu- ally the same men have occupied those stations for years and years. That is wrong. I think, if they are to be allowed private practice, that an officer should not be allowed to stay more than one tour of Service in a particular station.
934. Mr. Fiddian: You would not consider then, in such a matter, the question whether a man was a good clinician, for instance; you think everybody ought to have his turn, so to speak P-Yes, becauso there are a lot of men who do not get a chance of showing whether they are good clinicians, because they do not see any patients. A man ought to have an opportunity. If he proves to be a bad clinician, it is up to the Principal Medical Officer to shoot him out of the place. A lot of officers would not say thank you for private practice. I know lots of officers who have begged and entreated the Principal Medical Officer not to put them in any big station. There is always a lot of them who prefer the small stations.
935. Sir James Fowler: Do you think that the young, recently-qualified medical man has a higher estimation of the Service into which admission is obtained by examination, as against one into which admission is obtained by selection P-I do not think so.
Chairman: Thank you.
(The Witness withdrew.)
(Adjourned till Monday next, the 15th December, 1919.)
135
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
29
15 December, 1919.]
DR. A. D. P. HODGES, C.M.G.
[Continued.
FOURTH DAY.
Monday, 15th December, 1919.
PRESENT:
Lieutenant-Colonel SIR HARRY VERNEY, Bart.,
D.8.0.
KINGSTON
SIE WALTER EGERTON, K.C.M.G. (Chairman),
Lieutenant Colonel Sin JAMES
FOWLER, K.C.V.O., C.M.G., M.D., D.Sc., F.R.C.P., R.A.M.C. (T.). MR. T. HOOD, O.M.G., M.R.C.S., L.R.O.P. MR. A. FIDDIAN.
Surgeon Rear-Admiral BIR HUMPHREY
ROLLESTON, K.C.B., M.D., F.R.C.P.
D.
MR. J. E. W. FLOOD (Secretary).
Dr. A. D. P. HODGES, C.M.G., called in and examined.
936. Chairman: You are the late Principal Medical Officer of Uganda, I think?—Yes, Sir.
997. How long were you in that Colony?-Nearly 21 years.
998. Did you start there?—Yes, sa Medical Officer. 939. You rosa from Junior Medical Officer to the Principal Medical Officer?--Yea
940. Was the Medical Service contented when you left P-It certainly was not contented, Sir; that is one or two years ago.
941. Can you give me any reasons why it was not contented? One reason was the expenses of living were rising, and they thought they were not getting enough pay. But a great reason for the discontent for some time was the lack of promotion; Uganda being a small Service, most of the promotions coming from outside, not including my own, and they thought that they ought to have had more scope.
942. How many had you in personnel, how many Medical Officers ?--I do not recollect exactly, but I think about 27.
943. 27-23 to 27; I think the full establishment WAS 27.
944. How many grades of Medical Officers were there? There were only two grades; two Senior Medical Officers and the rest were Medical Officers, one Senior Health Officer and one Medical Officer of Health.
945. There were really only four appointments above the appointments to which men were appointed when they first joined the Service?-That is so.
946. On what salary were new Medical Officers appointed? £400 a year.
947. Was that sufficient, do you think, for a junior man just out from home?-I think it was then, but I do not know the conditions now; I think it was sufficient.
948. It is higher than in most other Colonies, is it not? I do not know. It is higher than Nyasaland; I do not know that it is higher than in any other African Colony.
949. They were eligible for promotion, I suppose, in the other Colonies P-That was what they felt; that they were not; that they did not get a look in. 950. Was there any transfer on promotion in your time? I do not think there was a single transfer.
951. You do not think there was a single transfer? -I do not think there was, I have heard of one since.
952. Was the Medical Service in Uganda totally distinct from that of British East Africa 7-Yes.
953. No transfers from the one to the other?-No. 954. Was that a good thing, do you think, having it separate?—I think it was a very good thing for the Colony of Uganda; I do not think it was such a good thing for the medical staff. It was a vory good thing for Uganda.
955. Why do you think it was a good thing for Uganda ? Well, it was tried; there was an amalga- mation for some years before I was appointed Principal Medical Officer. There were, I think, two Principal Medical Officers in the two Protectorates, but Uganda felt that it did not always get its fair share, or did not get what it might have got, and it was changed again.
958. Even if it got something, it was better than getting nothing, that you say it gets under the present arrangements P-I am speaking of the Pro- tectorate now, not the Medical Officer. The Uganda Protectorate had its own Medical Service, and a very satisfactory thing from its own point of view, and it is still; I mean the class of man it gets is very good.
957. This discontent you speak of, was it of long standing, or was it before the war?-It was before the war, but very shortly before the war it began to show.
958. And owing chiefly or entirely to the stagna- tion of promotion ?-I think the stagnation before the war-entirely, I should say.
959. You say the salary of the Medical Officer in £400; what salary do the two Senior Modical Officers get?--They get £600.
960. And the two Health Officers-One got 2000 and the other got £500. I am not sure about the newly appointed Health Officers; I think they start at £400, the same as the others.
961. Was there much private practice --No, very little; at one or two stations there was a fair amount. It is not much of an item.
962, Was the cost of living in Ugands much the same as elsewhere in East Africa?-Yes, I think much the same. It is dearer for imported things in Uganda than in East Africa, a good deal dearer. Before I left it was rather cheaper for local things.
963. Poultry and vegetables?—Yes; so that it out both ways.
964, Wore the quarters satisfactory?—Yes.
135
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,
29
DR. A. D. P. Hоpass, O.M.G.
[Continued.
FOURTH DAY.
Monday, 15th December, 1919.
PRESENT:
Sin WALTER EGERTON, K.C.M.G. (Chairman).
HARRY VERNEY, Bart.,
SIR HUMPHREY D.
B., M.D., F.R.C.P.
Lieutenant Colonel SCR JAMES
KINGSTON
FOWLER, K.C.V.O., C.M.G., M.D., D.Sc., F.R.C.P., R.A.M,C. (T.). MR. T. HOOD, C.M.G., M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P. MR. A. FIDDIAN.
Ma. J. E. W. FLOOD (Secretary).
Dr. A. D. P. HODGES, C.M.G., called in and examined.
the late Principal Medical P-Yes, Sir.
in that Colony ?—Nearly
P-Yes, as Medical Officer. jor Medical Officer to tha -Yes.
rvice contented when you it contented, Sir; that is
by reasons why it was not as the expenses of living ght they were not getting reason for the discontent sk of promotion; Uganda of the promotions coming
my own, and they thought
nd more scope.
in personnel, how many
it recollect exactly, but I
ink the full establishment
of Medical Officers were two grades; two Senior est were Medical Officers, and one Medical Officer of
only four appointments which man were appointed Service-That is so. are new Medical Officers
do you think, for a home I think it was
o conditions now; I think
n most other Colonies, is
is higher than Nyasaland;
higher than in any other
for promotion, I suppose, hat was what they felt; hey did not get a look in. fer on promotion in your re was a single transfer.
are was a single transfer?
, I have heard of one
952. Was the Medical Service in Uganda totally distinct from that of British East Africa ?—Yes.
959. No transfers from the one to the other?—No. 954. Was that a good thing, do you think, having it separate?-I think it was a very good thing for the Colony of Uganda; I do not think it was such
a good thing for the medical staff. It was a very good thing for Uganda.
955. Why do you think it was a good thing for Uganda P-Well, it was tried; there was an amalga. mation for some years before I was appointed Principal Medical Officer. There were, I think, two Principal Medical Officers in the two Protectorates, but Uganda felt that it did not always get its fair share, or did not get what it might have got, and it was changed again.
956. Even if it got something, it was better than getting nothing, that you say it gets under the present arrangements?-I am speaking of the Pro- tectorate now, not the Medical Officer. The Uganda Protectorate had its own Medical Service, and a very satisfactory thing from its own point of view, and it is still; I mean the class of man it geta is very good.
957. This discontent you speak of, was it of long standing, or was it before the war? It was before the war, but very shortly before the war it began to show.
958. And owing chiefly or entirely to the stagna- tion of promotion?-I think the stagnation before the war-entirely, I should say.
959. You say the salary of the Medioal Officer is £400; what salary do the two Senior Modical Officera get P-They get £600.
980. And the two Health Officors?-One got £000 and the other got £500. I am not sure about the newly appointed Health Officers; I think they start at £400, the same as the others.
961. Was there much private practice?-No, very little; at one or two stations there was a fair amount. It is not much of an item.
962. Was the cost of living in Uganda much the sama as elsewhere in East Africa P-Yes, I think much the same. It is dearer for imported things in Uganda than in East Africa, a good deal dearer. Before I left it was rather cheaper for local things.
969. Poultry and vegetables?—Yes; so that it out both way.
964. Were the quarters satisfactory P-Yes.
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