Flint 885/26
REPRODUCLU THOTOGRAPHIC-
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE
H
:
22
8 December, 1919.)
COLONIAL Medical SERVICES COMMITTEE.
MR. A. CoOKE.
710. You never really get a first-rate medical man applying for a post in the Colonial Service P-1 would not say that.
711. Never ?--I would not say that.
712. You think that some of the people we get are really good? Really good.
713. Chairman: Would you, if you could, accept younger candidates, at 23 or so; would that be an improvement P-It
would not have made any difference, in my experience.
714. Have you ever had any at 23 coming forward? -No; because they are told they cannot.
715. Sir Harry Verney: We discussed that before, whether it would not be a good thing to get the medical man to come straight from his School to apply for a Colonial appointment. You discourage the man to come as soon as he is qualified P-No.
718. You would keep any to send out?—Yes, I would.
717. Would you not be inclined to encourage a man to come as soon as he is qualified, rather than wait until he is of a certain age?—At the present time I would; I would encourage him to come directly he was qualified, in the hope of securing him.
718. Sir Humphry Rolleston: As to the 10 per cent. of candidates who expressed an objection to West Africa, is there anything specific about it, or do they leave it entirely vague? Do you attach any importance to what they say, or do you think it is merely a kind of superstition P-I think it is chiefly superstition.
719. That they really have not got very much to base it on?-No.
720. You said at the present time there was a great shortage, particularly on account of the War, and you rather implied that that was due to the fact that the War had abstracted a certain number of your Medical Officers and they had not yet come back; is that so?— No; I did not mean it like that; I meant that owing to the War we had a far greater number of vacancies than we normally would have, and there are other reasons in which the War has an effect on the supply of candidates, one being that all our candidates have served either in the Army or the Navy, and I should say the majority of them have risen to at least the rank of Captain, and quite a number to Major. A Captain in the R.A.M.C., I think, gets pay and allowances equivalent to £660 a year, so naturally he finde an appointment carrying a salary of £400 un. attractive. He has an exaggerated idea, I think, at the present time of what his services are worth.
721. That is natural, is it not? Do you think that these men who have served in a junior rank have got any desire to retain a definite rank and uniform, and so on? I have not noticed any indication of it.
722. In regard to private practice, can you give us any idea as to what is the best private practice that a man would be likely to get anywhere? You mentioned £400, but I imagine you did not mean that that was the maximum that one might go to in some biggish town?-Oh no, Sir! I understand that in a place like Nairobi, in the East African Protec- torate, a Medical Officer can make several thousands in private practice. I am told that; I do not know whether there is any truth in it.
723. In regard to the appointment, or appoint mente, in Gibraltar, I gather this is one of two, not the only one, is it? It is not the appointment that Dr. Turner had, is it?
Secretary: The Colonial Surgeon is allowed private practice, and the two Assistants are not; that is what makes the difference.
Mr. Fiddian: Are you satisfied in your own mind really that the percentage of 10 of the people, who are willing to go to East Africa and not to West, is not rather low? I should have said, from my experience, that the percentage unwilling to go to West Africa, and willing to go to Eat Africa, in rather higher,
Sir Harry Verney: Nearer 50. Chairman: You are talking of 1907.
[Continued.
724. Mr. Fiddian: You generally ask them at the Selection Sub-Committee, do you not ?—Yes.
725. I should have said it was rather a higher percentage?--Yes; 10 per cent, certainly is a low estimate.
726. Do you base it on an estimate, not on actual figures I have not actual figures by me at the moment.
727. Do you find it easier to fill the East African than the West African vacancies? Well, in point of fact, since I have held this appointment of Assistant Private Secretary, we have appointed more to West Africa than we have to East.
728. It is a larger service, and there are rather more vacancies ?-I do not think the number of vacancies can be taken into consideration in this case; they are unlimited on both sides.
*729. Chairman: That is very much in favour of the West, is it not?--Yes, it is.
730. When there are unlimited vacancies for posta on either side, and you have appointed more to West? -It is not more; there is no vast superiority.
731. But still, really you have appointed more to West Africa this year than to East?—I should think so; perhaps one or two more; no very large number. My records show we have appointed eight Officers to the West African Medical Staff, and the same number to East Africa, so the numbers are exactly the same. 732. Mr. Fiddian: Do you say the West African pay is regarded as inadequate?—At the present time,
yes.
733. It is £400?--It is £400.
734. Plus £80, duty pay -Yes.
735. Plus & War bonus of————£120. 736. When a man first goes out it amounts to £600 P -£600.
737. Plus quarters and private practice?—I do not find the War bonus adds very greatly to the attrac tiveness of the post.
738. Owing to its temporary nature?-Chiefly owing to its temporary nature. Every candidate asks me how long it is likely to continue. The best I can say is it is not proposed to withdraw it within any definite time.
739. It really comes to this, that the West African pay is inadequate? That is so.
740. What is Seychelles now?-5,000 rupees.
741. What is that ?--I think the rupee is 28. 2d.; it is about £500 year. When I started in April they were offering a salary of £200. It has risen by degrees to the figure of 5,000 rupees because they must have a Medical Officer.
742. It became necessary to educate the Governor, I think, on the question of the Medical Officer's salary, did it not?—Yes.
749. You said the salary at first was £200 ?--£200. 744.1 think you said the Leewards salary was only £250?--Either £250 or £300.
745. But they are now offering in that particular case £300 P-£300.
748. Do you imagine that you are to try to fill any post at £250 for them; does the Department still ask you to do it? They do, and they say they want a man with a good English degree and not anybody from America or Canada.
747. They have a certain number of Americana employed in the West Indies under War conditions P- Yes.
748. Do you get many applications from Austra liana, South Africans, or New Zealanders?-Practi- cally none, I think.
749. If you had an application from a Canadian, not resident in the United Kingdom, the interview would be a serious difficulty, would it not? At the present time I think they should dispense with the interview.
750. You would take him on somebody's recommen- dation P-Yes.
8 December, 1919.]
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
MR. A. COOKK.
751. But normally, under ordinary circumstances, you have no machinery for getting over that diffi- culty? None at all.
752. Do you get many black or coloured, or Indian candidates ?-Indian candidates we leave out at the start, in most cases.
758. Do you get many applications from them ?— Quite a number.
754. What about the black and the coloured P-We have had a number of black candidates for the West Indies, Trinidad, and certain other West Indian Colonies,
755. You have seen these men?-Yes. 756. What do you think of them; can you generalise about them?--I do not quite understand.
757. If there were no coloured bar, would you be prepared to recommend any of them?-You mean outside the West Indies; for appointments outside the West Indies?
768. For any Colonial appointment, we will say, of any kind?-No; we certainly would not recommend
them.
759. You would not recommend them?-No. 760. Is that based on racial grounds, or on the ground of their making bad Doctors POn their general unsuitability, I think. I would not recom. mend a black candidate for a post where they would have to treat Whites and Officials.
761. That is your own feeling in the matter; you think that Colonial Governments should share that view P-I am sure Colonial Officials would share it.
762. Even if they could not get any other Doctor?-- I think so.
763. I did not quite understand exactly what you said about the prospects of transfer. There is in the West Indies, after a certain number of years, you say, five, I suppose, is it not?--I do not restrict it to five usually, because I want to make it as attractive as possible: "After a certain number of years' satisfac- tory service you will be able to apply for transfer on promotion to another Colony."
'764. Do you think that many people take the service in the hope or the expectation of getting a transfer? -1 think so; those who apply, for instance, for Fiji, hope they will be transferred elsewhere.
765. As a matter of fact, transfers are generally rather difficult to work, are they not?-Yes.
766. There is a certain risk that you have raised expectations in their minds which may not be fulfilled? I put it as colourless as I can; I say they will be eligible to apply for transfer on promotion. I usually try to discourage expectations by saying I cannot guarantee anything, of course.
767. The pay in the Federated Malay States and Straits Settlements has been raised, has it not?- There is a proposal to raise it, under consideration in the Office, at present.
768. Dr. Hood: With regard to Medical attention in the West Indies, is every European Official entitled to free Medical attendance P--I understand so.
769. And their wives and families -I think so. Every Colonial Official is entitled to free Medical attention.
770. I think they are more in the shape of Poor Law Officers, if I remember rightly, in the West Indies -Oh, in the West Indies, yes.
Chairman: I think Officials are, but not their wives and families.
771. Dr. Hood: Have any grievances been put forward with regard to the pay and emoluments of Medical men in the West Indies P-I am afraid I am not in a position to say; I am only in a position to
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[Continued,
describe how the emoluments offered affect the appli- cations of candidates for appointment.
772. You say there is a difficulty about men getting transfers from one Colony to another; does not the difficulty arise because there is no easy means of arranging transfers ? Supposing, for instance, the Medical Advisory Committee in London were the body who could arrange transfers, do you not think it would encourage men to apply for transfers?—I do not think I quite follow you, Sir. There is a diffi. culty, but, of course, they have to wait for a vacancy to occur somewhere before there is any possibility of their being transferred.
•
773. There is no list kept at the Colonial Office of men who are anxious to get a transfer?-Yos there is. 774. Sir Harry Verney: About this Seychelles vacancy at 5,000 rupees, what appointment is it; I see there are four ?-Amistant Medical Officer and Visiting Magistrate.
775. It was 3,000 rupees, and it is now raised to 5,000 rupees, is that it?—Yes.
776. What are the others getting; the Chief Medical Officer, who was 4,500 rupees; do you know what he is getting P-I have not heard that his salary is being altered; I could not say for certain. The Depart ment tell me they will have to raise all the Medical Officers' salaries, in consequence of raising the salary of a candidate; I suppose that includes the Chief Medical Officer.
777. Mr. Fiddian: You have a candidate at some- thing over £500 a year who is 48 years of age. I. that the same man ?-Yes.
778. Sir Harry Verney: The best you could do for the Boychelles Islands is to get a man of 48 when you offer £500 a year?--Yes.
779. Mr. Fiddian: You could not guarantee him remaining at £500; that depends entirely on the exchange value of the rupee?-Yes, that depends entirely on the exchange value of the rupee.
780. Chairman: When was he appointed P-He was appointed lately; he was interviewed by the last Medical Appointments Committee.
781. Mr. Fiddian: Just to be quite clear about this 10 per cent, between West and East Africa. I take it it is this: Supposing 100 men applied for East Africa, and you said to them, "You will have to go either to East or West, just as we like." Now the question is what would they do; what would they say? Do you think that 90 per cent. of these would say,
"I will consider which I shall go to"?-I think on reconsideration that my estimate of 10 per cent. is, if anything, on the low side.
782. In my experience on the Appointments Board, it has been very rare for a man who applied for East Africa when he had a vacancy in the West offered to him, to say, "I do not mind; I will go to the West." Chairman: Are you speaking of the present time? Mr. Fiddian: Throughout the whole time the Board has been in existence. They have considered generally, I believe, whether they would go to East or West before they decided.
783. Chairman: Do you have any candidates who come up and say, "I want to go to West Africa " ?— Yes, Sir.
784. Sir Humphry Rolleston: Did you ever hear any one say he wanted to go to West Africa, and would in no circumstances go to East P-I have never heard them say that, except Medical Officers who have served in both. I have heard them say they would always choose the West African Medical Service in preference to the East African.
(The witness withdrew.)
LIEUT.-COLONEL R. E. DRAKE-BROCKMAN, D.S.O., M.B.C.S., L.R.C.P., called in and examined. 785. Chairman: You have served in Somaliland ?— Latterly, yes.
786. Before that?-In Uganda and East Africa. 787. How long?-I entered the service in October, 1900, and when the portion of Uganda in which I
was serving was handed over to East Africa, I con- tinued to serve in that part of Uganda and Enet Africa to the end of 1903, and then I was invalided out of East Africa. I came home and was appointed to Somaliland, to which I went out and remained until 1915.