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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
། ། ། ། ༔། mwimmmimC.O. 885
24 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
Do you remember a man coming and telling you he was a dentist?—I do not remember him coming.
You do not remember a dentist. Do you think you would remember the man if he told you he was a dentist-Yes, I think I should. I do not think he told me be was a dentist.
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The CLERK Tucker does not appear to say that he saw the defendant. went to 161a, Strand with Wright and saw somebody." That is what he said.
Mr. RAEBURN: You may be right. My notes, unfortunately, are rather scanty. Did you know anything about the prospects of employment for dentists in the Argentine?-No. I should not have advised him to have gone.
I do not know whether you remember Wright, the first witness who was called some weeks ago now. He was a clerk, or store-keeper, who had been once in Australia-No, I do not remember him.
any
Do you think you remember of them personally? Do you remember a man called Lovell, a butcher?--I can only remember what he said here, but I cannot recall him.
Lovell says he asked candid opinion about butchering. Do you remember anybody asking your candid opinion about butchering?-Well, if a butcher asked that question I should naturally say I should think there would be a chance on the cattle ranches.
your
The CLERK Do you remember, you are asked?—No, that would be the reply I should make if a man said he was a butcher.
you.
Mr. RAEBURN: Do you remember a man who said he was a tailor coming to see
Mr. COMYNS CARR: I do not think the tailor did see him personally. Mr. RAEBURN: You are quite right. It is no good taking you through these specific instances because you do not remember them, apparently?—No.
I suppose you are paid on tickets you book for Canada and Australia as well as Buenos Ayres?—Yes.
Have you sent people to Canada and Australia, or have they hooked through you? Yes, and gone out to Australia, a shipload of emigrants that I obtained myself.
your
business solely
Have you any other business with these various lines, or is that of a passage broker?-Only passage broker, or passage agent.
Since these men came home have you heard anything of them, or from them, until heard them in Court here?--I never had a complaint from anyone. They
you never called on me at all.
Cross-examined by Mr. CoмYNS Carr.
Can you tell me at all how many people you booked to the Argentine in 1913?—
I could look it up.
In 1913?
Yes, during last year. I do not want the exact figure. Tell me, roughly, by the Royal Holland Lloyd ships how many did you book to the Argentine in 1913. Cannot you give me any idea of the number?-About 145 during the year. year before that it was 476 at the £5 rate.
In the
It is satisfactory to know that. Would you be surprised to hear that out of the 145 whom you booked to the Argentine in 1913, 70 applied for relief during the year 1913 to the British Consul?-That is the first I have heard of that.
Mr. RAEBURN: My friend, I submit, is not entitled to put such questions. He has not proved anything of the sort.
The MAGISTRATE: If Mr. Hetherington had not answered I should have objected to the evidence, but he has answered it. If he said "I knew nothing about that I should have rejected that at once.
Mr. COMYNS CARR: You say you do not remember those particularly. Have you a list there of the people you booked?—Yes.
I will take a few examples. Have you any record there of booking a man named Mr. Westcott?
The MAGISTRATE: Are we going through the whole 145?
Mr. COMYNS CARR: No, certainly not, Sir John, only one or two I want to
ask him about.
I will not trouble if it is going to be a bother to you to find it. Did you have
a notice served on you by the Board of Trade to produce your books with regard to all these men?—Yes.
Let me take some quite recent ones that you may remember.-Westcott is not in 1913 at all.
He might be in 1912. I suggest he arrived in January, but it does not matter. Do you remember booking Mr. Overton, who has given evidence here this morning?-No.
As lately as October last. You do not remember him at all?—No. think I did. I do not think I was there when he booked.
Did you hear him give his evidence?—Yes, I heard him give it.
I do not
I understand you do not remember any of the conversations that any of these men have spoken to with you?—I do not remember.
You do not remember seeing them. Let Mr. Overton stand up. (Mr. Overton stood up.) Do you remember seeing him --I have never seen him before.
Let Mr. Whittlesea stand up. (Mr. Whittlesea stood up.) Do you remember seeing him?-No.
Mr. Wright. Do you remember seeing him?—Yes, I remember seeing him. I understand you do not remember the conversation which he says he had with you. You do not remember what you said to him when he came, or what he said to you?--I would not have much conversation with any of them. I would say the Argentine undertakes to find work. That is as far as I would go as regards the promise of work.
If you do not remember the conversation you had with them, and they say they do, the probability is that they are right, is it not -No. I think I am as right as they are.
You may be perfectly true in saying you do not remember, but if you do not remember what did happen, and they can remember what did happen, the probability is that they are right, is it not, as to what did happen?-No.
Very well. Now with regard to Mr. Jones and Mr. Macnaghten. When they came to see you did they not tell you quite plainly that you had been reported to them as the principal offender in booking unsuitable people to the Argentine?--I do not remember a word of that kind being mentioned at all. It was just an ordinary call.
Did they not tell you that they had a complaint from 34 people who had been booked by you to the Argentine? If they did I should have remembered it, but I You admit, I understand, that they asked you not to book people to the Argentine?—No, I do not. They never asked me any such thing.
do not.
Well, they cautioned you, you said.-Yes, and I made the remark if they did not go by me they go by other lines. There is a steamer to Buenos Ayres every day throughout the year from England.
If they cautioned you why did they caution you?-They wanted me to send all
the people that came to me up to their place for information.
But surely they told you why, did they not?—Yes, they told me that things were not so grand in' South America as they used to be.
Did they not tell you it was not true that the Argentine Labour Bureau found work for emigrants?-It was not true? No. I do not see why they should dispute what the authority says.
I am not asking you why they should. I am asking you whether they did not?-- I do not know.
I understand you say you told them that you got their pamphlets there?—Yes. You did not send their pamphlets to any of these witnesses who have been called here in this case, did you? They were at liberty to take them. They were all there for them to take.
It was not this Argentine pamphlet you say you had there of theirs not this thing in the yellow cover? There were some on the tables, but not the ones he spoke about with my name on by means of a rubber stamp.
You had some of them on your table?—Yes, they are there now.
Why did you not send one of those to these people who applied to you?—I would! lose twopence for everyone if I did.
The others are supplied to you free? If they said they wanted some I would "Here is this book," and would not charge anything for them. I would have to pay to get it from the office.
say
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