PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O. 885
24 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- | COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
The MAGISTRATE:
14
Unless this is the letter it does not affect my mind. Mr. RAEBURN: "I have joined the choir of an English Church at our next station and feel as if I were in England, especially on Sundays." You do not recollect that?—No.
Then it is probably not the letter. Did you tell Mr. Hetherington what your particular business was?--Yes.
Which business did you tell him?-Hotel work.
Did you read through these pamphlets fairly carefully?—Yes.
Did you notice that the Argentine Consul-General had apparently made himself responsible for these statements, or some of them?--Yes.
Did that affect your mind?—Yes.
Which affected your mind most, Mr. Hetherington, or the Argentine Consul- General? It was equal.
Re-examined by Mr. ComYNS CARR.
Their
You have been asked about this hotel. My friend suggested to you that they had not undertaken to supply you with anything of a first-class nature. Had you noticed the words in the pamphlet: "Free housing. The emigrants are suitably
housed, women and children in separate wards from those occupied by men. baggage is taken to a depot and there examined by a special branch of the Customs Department." First with regard to the housing, did you get a bed to sleep on ?--No. What did you sleep on? On a piece of canvas suspended by cord and ropes to iron-work.
Were there any blankets or covering of any kind ?—No.
Did feel the want of them ?--Yes.
you
What happened to your baggage, as a matter of fact-We had to take that ourselves it is supposed to have been taken for us--and get it into the emigration hotel, where we were told to place it in certain racks. It was placed in the racks.
What about the food. It says, "Free board. First class rations are issued to the emigrants," on a scale which was given. Do not give us details, but what was it like?--Very bad. It was practically uneatable."
I notice it says it was served in a large dining hall by waiters. It was in a large stone hall on marble-topped tables with perhaps sixty or seventy each side.
You were asked why you did not stop there longer. Will you tell us why you did not stop there longer?-Because we had been repeatedly told by the Argentine authorities that they could not get us work, and they admitted that to the British Consul, so he told me, and the British Consul then said, "The best thing
is for you to go home."
And he sent you home ?--Yes, and I can say there were thousands of Englishmen -I will not say thousands, but crowds of Englishmen who were practically destitute. They were in a pitiful condition; they could not get help from anyone.
The MAGISTRATE: How many went out with you?-About eleven.
How many came home?-I think there were eight started to come home. One
got a situation on the way back.
The MAGISTRATE: That was in Brazil?—Yes.
But out of the eleven that went out with you, eight came back ?--Yes.
Mr. RAEBURN: May I ask a question on that?
The eleven you speak about went out through Mr. Hetherington?-I do not know about that.
There were about seven hundred emigrants in this ship.
Mr. COмYNS CARR: He was asked about Englishmen.-I do not know the numbers. Of course, we picked up numbers at each port. I do not know the number; there was a lot.
Mr. RAEBURN : I thought the witness might make it clear. I thought the eleven were Mr. Hetherington's batch, but there were many others.
Mr. COмYNS Carr: Were there a considerable number of Englishmen among the emigrants?—No; perhaps eleven or twelve. I do not know the exact number, but it was few somewhere about 12 or 14.
According to your recollection eight came back with you?—Yes. Mr. COмYNS CARR: I can give evidence that it was rather more, as a matter
1
of fact.
The CLERK Will you write your address down?
15
The MAGISTRATE : I think you had better give the address. Everyone has sympathy with you, and would desire to help you. You had better give the address.
The WITNESS : 3a, Astonville Street, Southfields, London, S.W.
Mr. COMYNS CARR: Personally, I agree with what you say, Sir John, but I was asked to make the suggestion.
The MAGISTRATE : Yes. I think it is absurd to suppress names and addresses. There may be cases where it is desirable that names and addresses should be kept back, but they are extremely rare; and there is no reason why in these Courts we should not have everything perfectly openly.
I should say
us.
Mr. RAEBURN: Does my friend desire to press all these cases. that with regard to Evans that we never heard of him, and he did not book through Mr. COMYNS CARR: That is true; he did not book through Hetherington. Mr. RAEBURN : I thought I was assisting my friend.
(Adjourned to the 2nd March at 3 p.m.)
Second Day.
Mr. ALFRED NICHOLAS TUCKER, sworn. Examined by Mr. COмYNS CARR.
Is your address 122, Munster Road, Fulham ?—Yes.
Were you up to September last carrying on a dental business there?—Yes. When did you see an advertisement in certain newspapers first?-About the middle of September.
44
44
In what papers? The "Daily Chronicle," the "Daily Telegraph," and the Daily Mirror," I think.
I do not think we have put in the " Daily Chronicle," but will you look at this one and see if it is the one which you saw in the "Daily Chronicle." This says, Emigration. Female domestics need pay only £1 to Australia; situations guaranteed; New Zealand £2 16s.; best advice from Colonial experience; £14 to India; £7 to Buenos Ayres; work found by the State Labour Bureau. Hethering
Was that the ådvertisement in 'ton's, 161a, Strand, W.C. Established 50 years."
44
the "Daily Chronicle"?—Yes.
Will you look at that advertisement in the "Daily Mirror." (Same handed.) I think that refers only to the Argentine. It says, Buenos Ayres, £7. Five days'
"free board on arrival and work found."-Yes.
In consequence of that did you go to the address, 161a, Strand?—I did. Did you go in company with the last witness, Mr. Wright?--Yes.
Did you there interview someone?—Yes.
Was it the defendant, Mr. Hetherington, whom you saw on the first occasion ?-
No, I should not say it was.
Did you pay anything on that occasion ?—I paid £1 deposit on my passage ticket. Did he give you any advertisements?—Yes."
Will you look through that bundle of documents and tell me whether he gave
you any similar to those, and, if so, which ?—Yes. I had all but the last one in the bundle. (Indicating circular referring to Canada.)
Did you read them ?—Yes.
Did you notice the various statements with regard to employment?—I did. Did you believe those statements?—Yes.
Did you subsequently give to the last witness Wright a sum to pay the balance
of your purchase money?—Yes.
He has told us that he paid it with his own.
in the "Zeelandia "?—Yes.
Did sail on the 18th September
you
We need not trouble about the voyage. When you arrived there did you go to
the Emigrants Hotel spoken of in the pamphlet ?—Yes.
Did you on the following day go to the Labour Bureau and apply for employ- ment?--I did.
Did they find any
for you
?—No.
How long did you stay there altogether?--Twenty-one days; three weeks. During that time can you say how often you applied at this Labour Bureau ?- On nine or ten consecutive days.
Page 540Page 541
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
། ༴「 ༄། ། ། mmmmm.C.O. 885
24 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
EC
The MAGISTRATE:
Mr. RAEBURN:
14
Unless this is the letter it does not affect my mind.
I have joined the choir of an English Church at our next station and feel as if I were in England, especially on Sundays." You do not recollect that ?-No.
Then it is probably not the letter. Did you tell Mr. Hetherington what your particular business was?—Yes.
Which business did you tell him?-Hotel work.
Did you read through these pamphlets fairly carefully ?—Yes.
Did you notice that the Argentine Consul-General had apparently made himself responsible for these statements, or some of them ?--Yes.
Did that affect your mind?-Yes.
Which affected your mind most, Mr. Hetherington, or the Argentine Consul- General? It was equal.
Re-examined by Mr. Comyns CARR.
You have been asked about this hotel. My friend suggested to you that they had not undertaken to supply you with anything of a first-class nature. Had you noticed the words in the pamphlet: Free housing. The emigrants are suitably housed, women and children in separate wards from those occupied by men. Their **baggage is taken to a depot and there examined by a special branch of the Customs Department." First with regard to the housing, did you get a bed to sleep on ?—No. What did you sleep on On a piece of canvas suspended by cord and ropes to iron-work.
Were there any blankets or covering of any kind ?—No.
Did feel the want of them ?—Yes.
you
What happened to your baggage, as a matter of fact-We had to take that ourselves it is supposed to have been taken for us and get it into the emigration hotel, where we were told to place it in certain racks. It was placed in the racks.
What about the food. It says, "Free board. First class rations are issued to the emigrants," on a scale which was given. Do not give us details, but what was it like? Very bad. It was practically uneatable."
I notice it says it was served in a large dining hall by waiters. It was in a large stone hall on marble-topped tables with perhaps sixty or seventy each side.
You were asked why you did not stop there longer. Will you tell us why you did not stop there longer-Because we had been repeatedly told by the Argentine authorities that they could not get us work, and they admitted that to the British Consul, so he told me, and the British Consul then said, "The best thing "is for you to go home."
And he sent you home?--Yes, and I can say there were thousands of Englishmen -I will not say thousands, but crowds of Englishmen who were practically destitute. They were in a pitiful condition; they could not get help from anyone.
The MAGISTRATE: How many went out with you -About eleven.
How many came home?-I think there were eight started to come home. One
got a situation on the way back.
The MAGISTRATE: That was in Brazil?—Yes.
But out of the eleven that went out with you, eight came back?—Yes.
Mr. RAEBURN: May I ask a question on that?
The eleven you speak about went out through Mr. Hetherington?--I do not know about that.
There were about seven hundred emigrants in this ship.
Mr. COMYNS CARR: He was asked about Englishmen.-I do not know the numbers. Of course, we picked up numbers at each port. I do not know the number; there was a lot.
Mr. RAEBURN : I thought the witness might make it clear. I thought the eleven were Mr. Hetherington's batch, but there were many others.
Mr. COмYNS CARR: Were there a considerable number of Englishmen among the emigrants?-No; perhaps eleven or twelve. I do not know the exact number, but it was few somewhere about 12 or 14.
According to your recollection eight came back with you?—Yes. Mr. COмYNS CARR:
of fact.
I can give evidence that it was rather more, as a matter
The CLERK: Will you write your address down?
15
The MAGISTRATE: I think you had better give the address. Everyone has sympathy with you, and would desire to help you. You had better give the address.
The WITNESS : 3a, Astonville Street, Southfields, London, S.W.
Mr. COMING CARR: Personally, I agree with what you say, Sir John, but I was asked to make the suggestion.
The MAGISTRATE : Yes. I think it is absurd to suppress names and addresses. There may be cases where it is desirable that names and addresses should be kept back, but they are extremely rare; and there is no reason why in these Courts we should not have everything perfectly openly.
I should say
us.
Mr. RAEBURN : Does my friend desire to press all these cases.
that with regard to Evans that we never heard of him, and he did not book through Mr. COMYNS CARR: That is true; he did not book through Hetherington. Mr. RAEBURN : I thought I was assisting my friend.
(Adjourned to the 2nd March at 3 p.m.)
Second Day.
Mr. ALFRED NICHOLAS TUCKER, sworn. Examined by Mr. ComYNS CARR.
Is your address 122, Munster Road, Fulham !--Yes.
Were you up to September last carrying on a dental business there?—Yes. When did you see an advertisement in certain newspapers first?-About the middle of September.
In what papers? The "Daily Chronicle," the "Daily Telegraph," and the "Daily Mirror," I think.
I do not think we have put in the " Daily Chronicle," but will you look at this one and see if it is the one which you saw in the "Daily Chronicle." This says, Emigration. Female domestics need pay only £1 to Australia; situations guaranteed; New Zealand £2 16s.; best advice from Colonial experience; £14 to
**
<
SE
"
Was that the ådvertisement in
India; £7 to Buenos Ayres; work found by the State Labour Bureau. Hethering- ton's, 161a, Strand, W.C. Established 50 years.' the "Daily Chronicle"?—Yes.
44
Will you look at that advertisement in the " Daily Mirror." (Same handed.) I think that refers only to the Argentine. It says, Buenos Ayres, £7. Five days'
free board on arrival and work found."--Yes.
K
In consequence of that did you go to the address, 161a, Strand ---I did. Did you go in company with the last witness, Mr. Wright?—Yes.
Did you there interview someone?—Yes.
Was it the defendant, Mr. Hetherington, whom you saw on the first occasion ?—
No, I should not say it was.
Did you pay anything on that occasion ?—I paid £1 deposit on my passage ticket. Did he give you any advertisements ?—Yes."
Will look through that bundle of documents and tell me whether he gave
you
you any similar to those, and, if so, which ?—Yes. I had all but the last one in the bundle. (Indicating circular referring to Canada.)
Did you read them ?—Yes.
Did you notice the various statements with regard to employment?--I did. Did you, believe those statements ?—Yes.
Did you subsequently give to the last witness Wright a sum to pay the balance
of your purchase money?—Yes.
He has told us that he paid it with his own.
in the "Zeelandia "?—Yes.
Did you
sail on the 18th September
We need not trouble about the voyage. When you arrived there did you go to
the Emigrants Hotel spoken of in the pamphlet ?—Yes.
Did you on the following day go to the Labour Bureau and apply for employ-
ment?--I did.
Did they find for
any you
?--No.
How long did you stay there altogether?-Twenty-one days; three weeks. During that time can you say how often you applied at this Labour Bureau ?-- On nine or ten consecutive days.