PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
mmm C.O. 885
23 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
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30 April 1914.]
WHALING COMMITTEE:
Mr. C. O. JOHNSON,
693. Everywhere it would be possible to work in this way? Yes. At Port Alexander we tried several years on board ship. On shore it is different, but on board ship it is very stuffy where we were making the guano. with the driers. Last year, for the first time, we could overcome the heat, and we overcame it so splendidly that it is colder down there than on deck, and we are working about 15 or 16 south of the Equator. We have cooled the place with a fan.
694. Do you think those interested in the whaling Industry realise that some steps must be taken to lessen the killing of whales if whales are to be protected from destruction? Is it generally recognised by those en- gaged in this industry that some restriction must be imposed ?—Yes, everybody with a safe tenure would be plessed to see this done. It is a small matter, and a little more initial expense to add extra plant.
695. Would you admit that unless opportunity is given for female whales to give birth to young whales, and for young whales to grow to maturity, so as to ensure a succession of generations, whales must become extinct in a short time -I do not think that could be done, for the reason that the whales have no season of pregnancy. You will find them pregnant with a fetus of a different size, from a few inches up to 18-20 ft. at all times.
696. It would be impossible, I presume from that, to have a close season, but it might be possible to have an area in reserve in the Antarctic in which there should be no whaling ?-Where the whales at present are caught is a very small area of the Antarctic. The lack of barbours, and the difficulty of obtaining fresh water stops the whaling round the ice barrier. They cannot lie out at sea and do it. So the whales have practically from the South Shetlands all the way round, where they are protected by nature itself. Of the whales travelling north to East and West Africa 97 per cent. are Hump- backs. At South Georgia a few years back Humpbacks were very plentiful, but they are very scarce at present. That shows that the whales keep to feeling places. When you get down to the ice barrier you find the water full of shrimpe.
697. Do you think the whales near the ice lærrier remain there all the year round, or do they have to come up to warmer water to feed at certain times of the year and to give birth to calves? Do you think in this ice barrier they can live all the year round and reproduce, or do they have to come to places where they can be hunted So far as the Humpback is con- cerned they do go north, but so far as the temperature of the water in the south is concerned I do not need to Bay that is known-the temperature remains practically the same all the year round.
6598. Until you come up to West Africa P-Yes, but even at West Africa the water is very cold, the cold current coming up against the Cape from Cape Horn and follows the coast towards the French Congo.
699. Just one other question: You spoke of a female whale with a calf about 30 ft. long which were killed. Would you agree to the prohibition of the killing of the mother whale and calf in order to ensure the young calf coming to maturity?-Yes, I would agree to that.
700. Some whalers do not object to a prohibition of the killing of the mother and calf, because we hear that the mother is not very fat and does not have very much oil at such a time? It is very fat, but you cannot compare the north with the south. When the mother whale is pregnant she is very fat, in fact, they are all fat when they come up from the south barrier and going north, and even with a calf they are very fat.
701. If the mother and the calf can be spared there is some security that you are having reproduction of another generation?—Yes.
702. And it is some safeguard against the extinction of the whale. I wish to have your view as to whether it would be possible to prohibit the killing of the mother and calf?-When you see a family of whales you are the father and mother (the pair always go together), and they have the young between them in order to protect them. There is a little distinction on the back fin as to which is the male or the female.
[Continued.
Practically every gunner thinks he knows, but even they make mistakes. If you happen to shoot the male first the female will run away immediately; she will not stop whether she has a calf with her or not, but if you happen to get the female harpooned Brat the male will stay there and he will not leave. Of course, at odd times it may be scared, but as a rule the malo stands by while the female lives, and you haul her in and make the gun ready to get the male also. There- fore if you get the female at the first shot you are mostly sure to get the male.
703. The calf will be of no real use as regards blabber P-No, none whatever; nobody wants him except for the sake of catching the mother.
704. But looking at the possibility of preserving the species, it is shortsighted to kill of mothers and calves?--You must take into consideration that the gunners and crews are paid by results; there are no sizes, and for every one they bring in they get so much. If you were to prohibit them from taking a mother which has a calf, who is going to prove that he will not touch the calf ? If he does kill the calf to get hold of the mother, he will let the calf float away and bring in the mother, and there is no man who will inform. The manager at the factory will know nothing. As a rule, now, they never kill the calf if they can help it, they will take him if whales are scarce if he is of any size, or if the mother cannot be got without catching the calf first.
705. May I take it your firm would not object to a rule that there should be a maximum number of barrels. and a lag of guano against each barrel?-We would
not.
706. (Chairman.) The question of the protection of rare species has also been raised; do you think that a prohibition of catching them could be enforced ?---What rare species do you mean P
707. We had a list from the British Museum, and that there are quite a number?-I cannot answer question as to the species of whales in the Northern Hemisphere, I can only answer as to the South.
708. One might almost say the Greenland whale was such a specimen. Do you think the prohibition of taking a particular kind of whale could in general be enforced? It depends very much on the place does it not, and on the kind of whale; for instance, the Green. land whale is exceptionally valuable -On account of the finners. If it could be enforced, of course, it would only be possible by all countries having to enforce it, and with regard to the finners which are known to come from the Greenland whale, the Customs would confiscate them whenever they got them, and they would be of no value, as they had to be brought either to Europe or America.
709. The produce of the Greenland whale then could be identified in a cargo?-They could, the finners are so large.
710. In most cases, I suppose, you could not tell from what kind of whale the produce came ?--The Greenland whale is the Right whale, but it is very large. In the south we are getting Right whales, but they are smaller; we get some very small ones. and some very large ones, but the large ones cannot compare with the Greenland whales The Greenland whales are mostly twice their bulk.
711. Supposing that it was thought desirable to protect the southern Right whale, could the taking of that whale be controlled by the inspection of the pro ducts, or would it be necessary to have an official at the factory to which the whales were brought-As to the Right whale in the Southern Hemisphere it would not pay to go especially for him, so that you are only getting stragglers. Lots of them have been caught on the Argentine coast, but the whalebone has come down very much in price on account of the quantity caught. When a family now is travelling down past South Georgia, the boats do not go to look for them except when they cannot find other whales, or if they have stopped taking other whales. Then they go to the westward of the island to look for the Right whale. The abundance of Right whale in the Southern Hemisphere I do not think should be protected.
30 April 1914.]
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
Mr. C. O. JOHNSON.
712. I was only putting an example; I instance that species because I wanted to ascertain what ad- ministrative measures are practicable in order to protect particular species ?-They protect themselves in this way in the south with the value of whalebone going down from several thousand pounds to about 1001. as at present. This also means that big quantities would have to be procured to make the expedition a financial success; therefore with the present day modern whalers you do not look for them." You only take him if he comes to you or if there is nothing else to look for.
713. If the Government desired to prevent their oupture it could only do so effectually by having an official at each factory; is that so P-Now they will have to be declared, and if shipped from there to Europe, say if they were shipped direct to France, country where there was not this protective measure, they could not be known because they could smuggle them out of South Georgia, for instance. You would not declare them when you are shipping out your cargo, although you are supposed to have them on your manifest.
714. That is to say you practically confirm my suggestion that prohibition of the capture of a par- ticular species could only be effected by having an official at the factory --Yes. In the case of a com- pany having a licence, even if their gunners had brought in a whale which was prohibited, the manager of the factory would not dare to accept it as he would be afraid of the company's name.
715. You think he himself would inform the Govern ment? He would not inform, but if a whaling bont brought in a prohibited species, he would simply say, Tow him out to sea as quickly as you can; do not bring him here."
718. (Mr. Baker.) He would not pay the gunner for him That is so.
717. And that might prevent the gunner bringing him in again -That is so. The manager of the com- pany would be afraid of breaking the law because there are too many men who could tell. There might be bad blood against the manager.
718. (Chairman.) We have heard that there is a company at Chile which conducta whaling on the high seas in the neighbourhood of British territory, but outside the three-mile limit: do you know anything about this! There are different whaling companies: there are two classes. The old American whaling sailing ship used to go only for Right and Sperni whale and take nothing else. They harpoon them from small boats.
719. (Mr. Baker.) Are there still such ships -Yes. 720. (Secretary.) I suppose they could not deal with the Humpback with a hand harpoon?—Yes.
721. If it dies, would it not sink P-As a rule they do sink, but if you get a fat Humpback he does not sink. The Right whale will sink if he is very lean, but when fat they will float.
722. I have seen it stated that the Right whales and Sperm whales are less liable to sink when dead than the other species ?-Because they are generally
[Continued.
37
fat. The Sperm whale does not as a rule go south. although ba is known to have been caught south. Those are only stragglers. He keeps to the warm belt You find them and goes in schools of many thousands. there of different sizes, from very small ones up to 50
or 60 feet. Last year when we saw no other whales at the beginning of the season we gave permission to our boats to catch them. One boat came in with Ave one day, and there were altogether 15 caught in two daya.
723. I understand that these small American whalers from New Bedford only went out after Sperm or Right whale ?—Yes.
724. What was their reason for confining them. selves to these two species ?-Because they are easily caught and valuable. The sperm oil especially in the head has been very valuable, although it is now hardly more than ordinary oil. The value of the Right whale- bone has been as much as several thousand pounds a ton, but now about 8001., and the demand is for large bone at that price.
725. They are easy to catch for a small ship, you say P-Yes, they go out in boats and kill them by hand. We might catch as much in one day with the new modern boats and factory as they practically do in a
year.
720. (Chairman.) You do not know anything special about this company from Chile P-I only know of one company, a Norwegian company, which is registered in Chile, but the company I know of has a licence.
727. We know that company, but this is another one which has no British licence, although I understand one of the Larsen Brothers is in it f―They must haven harbour to work in.
728, If so, they must come within the three-mile limit ?--If there is a heavy sea on how can they work the whale otherwise? Where are they to get fresh water there for boiling down?
729. We have only the report, and we cannot tell you about these details, I am afraid. It may be one of those Chile companies with a sailing ship, but I do not think it would pay to go outside to try for the Right whales. Was this company fishing at South Georgia!
730. (Secretary.) South Shetland.-South Shetland is land-locked, and it might be possible there, and they could get their water from the ice barrier.
731. (Chairman.) They say they do not come within the three-mile limit, and are therefore not amenable to our law? Is the ice counted as the shore or not? It is not land, but ice; but even that would be too expensive. The hot sun in summer melts the ice on Fresh water top and the water runs like little rivers. they must have.
732. (Secretary.) I understand some companies distil the salt water for their boilers If you do that you will get the boilers full of salt or lime.
733. Even after distilling?—Distilling would be too expensive again. We have evaporators for 100 tons a day, but it would cost more to run them than any value we could get in return. Coal in very valuable, and it takes coal to distil.
The Witness withdrew,
SIXTH DAY.
Thursday, 7th May 1914.
Mr. BAKER,
|
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mr. DARNLEY.
MR. MAURICE in the Chair.
Mr. MAURICE.
Mr. WILLIAMS (Secretary).
Dr. JOHAN HJORT* (Director of Fisheries at Bergen, Norway), called and examined.
734. (Chairman.) You have got there the list of questions which we agreed upon as general heads, May I take the first one, General Distribution of
Whales-Different Species, etc."
I think what you
would prefer to do would be to give us a general account of your knowledge on that subject ?—Yen.
See explanatory note at end of evidence,