PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O. 885
23 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
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25 February 1914.]
WHALING COMMITTEE:
Captain L. BRUUN.
to apeak, would you draw any distinction between different kinds of whales, or would you say that for the whales they are fishing in these regions it would apply What I mean is this: Do fairly equally all mound? you think any one species of whale which they are fishing might require protection more than another, or do think they will all take care of themselves?
you -They will all take care of themselves to a certain
extent.
585. (Mr. Vernon.) It is not disputed, is it, that there has been a large reduction of the number of whales in the Northern Hemisphere?-No; I do not think so.
566. And that is due to the whaling, and not to any other cause?-That is so.
567. Is it not reasonable to suppose that the same result will follow from the great extension of whaling in the Southern Hemisphere -At those places where they fish, yes.
568. Is not the reduction in the Northern Hemi- sphere general? It is not confined to a few particular places: if you took the whole of the Northern Hemi- sphere there would be a reduction --No, but there is this difference, that in the Northern Hemisphere where they fish the whales, it is a very small area, and they have been able to fish nearly all over. It is a different thing in the south, where they have only one place where they can catch them. In the north there is a very small space, and harbours all sand.
569. Do you think the distribution of whales in the Southern Hemisphere is much wider?—Yes, ten times as great as they have ever been in the north.
570. It is much wider, and they can only be reached at much fewer number of points? Yes, and they are far more numerous.
571. (Chairman.) You mean more numerous than they have ever been in the north? Yes. I was in South Georgia in 1895 when I was quite a young man. I proposed to my father to start whaling down there. You could walk on the whales there; they were abso- lutely thick, but still it was not a paying business then. 572. (Mr. Vernon.) Supposing they were greatly reduced in numbers in the neighbourhood of South Georgia and the South Shetlands, is there any other place they would be likely to be killed from, supposing whalers found these places would not pay?-Not yet. I believe the day will come when you will catch whales anywhere.
573. That means with improved appliances and im
You will start and proved vessela?--Improved vessels. build vessels absolutely for the whaling, and the whale If the whale oil oil will go higher up than it is now. goes up to 301. I believe they will go round the whole world after the whales, wherever they can find them, and do the whole thing on board. That is just a suggestion, but I believe so.
574. (Mr. Holt.) Did you not tell me that a large number of whales with young are found somewhere about the Congo P-Certainly.
575. Do you know that of your own observation P—-- I have a station myself in Portuguese West Africa, and they prohibited their killing of young ones there. The Portuguese enforce that law and keep a man to watch them. On the Congo there is no law yet, but there will be when this Commission is finished in Paris.
576. (Mr. Lamb.) Do you mean they place a man on board the vessels to watch?-Yes, not on board the whalera, but on board the big ship to see that no small whales are brought in.
577. Could you check the killing of whales with calves following them, unless you had someone on board the vessel, or could you always tell when the whale was brought into the station to be treated?-It would be pretty difficult.
578. So that the only way to make that effective would be to have someone on board the vessel ?—Yes, if you want to make it absolutely effective you would have to have that.
579. Or even moderately so? Yes, even mode. rately so.
580. If one started not to observe it, it would be a great temptation to others to follow suit ?—Yes, but
[Continued.
that is not so great a temptation, because, as I told you, the mothers are very lean.
581. So that if there was a choice the whaler would always go after something better?—Always.
582. (Chairman.) The other questions we should rather like to get information from you about are, in case we should eventually find ourselves taking the view that protection was necessary, whether it would be necessary from the point of view of protection to know a good deal about the routes taken by the whales on their migrations, and, if one could discover it, the places at which and the times at which parturition takes place mainly have you any information on any of these pointe-Yes, I begin to believe that parturition takes place at any place.
583. You think there is no definite time?—No, except that it seems to be, as far as the Humpback goes, that they come up to Africa near the Line to leave their. As far as the Blue whale, the Sibbaldi, young ones.
goes, in one year they found in the north of Norway a foetus inside a whale 234 ft. long, and at the same time one 8 in. long.
584. That is the smallest we have heard of. They were found at the same time, but not in the same whale. I myself have found them quite ready to be born, and we find them just a foot long. That proves that they cannot have a regular place where they bread, that is to say the Finners and the Blue whales. Humpback goes, they seem to be more regular in Africa; so far as the other whales go, the whalers think they have no regular time.
As far as the
585. Mr. Burfield, who was giving evidence before us recently, said he had heard (and he gave you as his authority) that a school of Humpbacks had for some years regularly come from the White Sea across Norway to Iceland in the autumn, that they were gravid females, and they bred, and that subsequently the males came and conducted them away; does he accurately represent what you said to him P-That was not in Norway: he is mistaken there. That was in the Lagoons in California. The fishermen there told me that, and I believe that was quite correct-that they went into those Lagoons in California to feed their young ones. It is the same with the Humpbacks in Africa; I believe they have a regular place to go to, but I do not think it applies to other whales.
586. I see that he mentioned the Californian case as well, but he mentioned two cases, you see, of apparent migration for breeding which were given to him by you, the one from the White Sea across Norway to Iceland, and the other one of migration into California and the long inlets P-That it quite true; but I do not think I said anything about the male whale coming in Norway.
587. I am afraid I am wrong.-There is no question about it that those Humpbacks in Norway had a regular time for breeding. I read that the other day.
588. (Mr. Baker.) And a regular place -No, they were pregnant when they went one way and further on when they got another way, and then they seemed to disappear in the Atlantic. Then when they came back again they had young ones.
589. (Chairman.) Those are other casas?-This is the case of the Humpbacks in Norway. So far as other whales are concerned nobody has been able to find out about them.
590. (Mfr. Darnley.) Can you say how long any one of these species of whales takes to reach maturity ?— I should say a year, in my opinion.
591. For a Humpback or a Finner P-I think I give them all a year.
592. Not more P-I do not think so. One thing we know, anyhow, is that they grow marvellously quickly after they are born; that is the general opinion. There was a story told me the other day of a Finner in the Varanger Fjord, in the north of Norway, a little young one who was sucking his mother in the month of May, and the whale was marked with a hole in its fin, and that whale came back in September and the young one was then killed and was nearly 50 feet long. Personally, I believe they must grow quickly, or why do we not get young Finners 30 feet long or 40 feet long? If they do not grow as quickly you would be bound to get them of
25 February 1914.]
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
Captain L. Bruun,
those measurements, and they seem either to be 50 feet or quite small. We fever get them at 30 feet or 40 feet, or very seldom. I have never got one.
593. Have you any definite evidence about the Varanger Fjord case, or how did you hear about it P- A shooter told me he saw this whale in the month of May, and they were all going east; they came up the Varanger Fjord and then went to Siberia and came back in the autumn. I believe, personally, it is possible.
594. Do you agree with the evidence of some of the other witnesses that Humpbacks and Finnera probably have calves every second year?-That is what I believe. 595. Have you any idea how old whales live to be? -No, not the slightest.
596, (Chairman.) If I may interpose a question there, have you any ides of the age at which they reach maturity for breeding purposes?—No.
597. (Mr. Darnley.) Can you distinguish between old whales and young?—Yes.
598. Readily?—If you get them up on the slip, very easily.
599. Apart from size, that they are full grown, call you say: This is one which has only lately reached maturity." and "This is an old stager."—Yes, especially so far as the female goes, you can very easily see it.
600. What are the signs?—It is just the same as with any other female. The very young female whale is very maiden-looking, and as to an old one you can see that he has had young ones because she is bigger generally.
601. (Chairman.) In the breasts?—Yes.
802. (Mr. Darnley.) With the males can you dia. tinguish in any way?—The young ones are sinoother and finer generally.
603. It is only from external signs, much the same as with other animals ?—Yes.
604, (Mr. Lanch) I suppose the akin tends to get rougher ?—Yes: I will not say the skin but the general
[Continued.
29
appearance of the whole fish is fresher and younger, just the same as with any other mammal, I should say. 605. (Mr. Holt.) There are barnacles, are there not, on whales ?---The Humpbacks and Right whales,
608. I suppose some part of the age of those could be determined by a naturalist without very much diffi- oulty by the age of the barnacles ?-I do not know.
607. (Mr. Darnley.) Can you recall any other instance of a marked whale?—No; but there is another
one I have heard about. On a whaling station in the West of Norway, two years ago, they shot a mother whale beside a fairly large young one. but it was so small that they did not take the young one, so that you may calculate it would be about 30 feet or so. When they got that one up on the slip, she was quite ready
to food her young one; they did not tell me the size of the fetus but there was a very large one in her.
608. I think we have had a somewhat similar state- ment in other evidence? Of course, you know se many aa six or seven have been found in a whale, but it is very rare.
Many have seen two calves with a cow, but
the most usual thing is one.
609. Have more than two calves, as distinct from fetuses. actually been seen ?—I do not think so.
610. (Mr. Vernon.) Do you know of the coast of Portuguese Africa as a regular breeding place for whales No, they do not breed there; they only a there on their way up to the Congo, and then they come back again. Some of them pass along the coast, and I think they come right on the coast and then follow the coust for a little bit going South again. Not all of them come up there to breed. There are different views as to what they go there for. Some say they go to the fresh water in the Congo to get their barnacles off, but there is no question that some of them breed there.
611. It is certain that a number of gravid females pass up to the Congo, and that a number of calves come back from the Congo?—Yes.
612. There is clear evidence of that?-Yea, na to the Humpback whale only.
The Witness withdrew.
FOURTH DAY.
Friday, 24th April 1914.
MEMBER PRESENT:
MR. DARNLEY (Chairman),
Mr. WILLIAMs (Secretary).
Mr. HOLMAN KINGDON, M.A., called and examined.
613. (Chairman.) Would you kindly state your position ?--I am a managing director of the firm of Joseph Crowfield & Sons, Limited. Warrington.
614. Would you care to begin by making a general statement of what you can tell us --Mr. Williams sent me a letter, of which I dare say you have seen a copy, in which he indicated the lines on which you would like that information abould be given, and I told him I thought that instead of writing, which would be rather difficult, it would be better for me to come up at some convenient date and discuss the matter informally. You may decide that the information which I have is of no use to you in this connection. If you do, there is no harm done; if you do not, as I said before, I am entirely at your disposal. Mr. Williams said in his letter: The following are the points on the subject of which "the Committee are desirous of obtaining further in- formation: (1) The various uses to which whale oil is pat or is likely to be put in the near future." Would
you like me to confine myself to the subject matter of this letter?
turers.
615. No, we do not desire you to confine yourself to that at all: Will you please make a statement in your own wayMy firm are soap and chemical manufac
In connection with the manufacture of soap they use various kinds of oils both animal and vegetable, and, owing to the increasing price of those oils of recent years, we have had a very great inducement to look after new sources of supply of all kinds. Oila of the character of fish oils, amongst which I include whale oil, although a whale, I understand, is not strictly speaking a fish, have not been usable because of the disagree- able odour which would attach itself to anything which wise washed with soap made from such an oil. May I mention parenthetically that we attach the very greatest importance to the scientific side of our business, and we have always tried to develop it to the best of our ability by means of research chemists and so on.
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