PUBLIC
RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
mmimmimi.C.O. 885
23 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
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23 January 1914]
WHALING COMMITTEE:
Mr. STANLEY T. BURFIELD, B.A.
places" I mean parturition grounds again; I do not mean pairing areas.
313. Your suggestion is that you should take a certain parallel I think that is the only thing that could be done.
314. The nearest thing one could do would be to take a certain parallel and say "thus far and no farther "P-Yes, because we do not know the different spots, and therefore the only thing one could do if one attempted anything of that nature would be to draw that general line, including apparently the whole of
them.
315. One point occurs to me from your suggestion that the whales need to come inshore, that possibly one might meet it by forbidding the destruction of whales within a certain distance from the shore?—Yes.
316. I think there are such regulations in some places P-
(Mr. Lamb.) In Scotland it is 40 miles.
I believe off the Irish coast on a normal voyage out for finners they went quite 90 miles off the coast. That would not apply to the sperms; they went about 200 miles for them.
817. (Chairman.) A regulation of that kind is not likely to be very effective?—No. That one case of the Humpbacks coming across to Iceland for breeding gives you one example in that part of the world of a fairly definite breeding area if this case could be substantiated.
318. You mean if you could close an area round Iceland during the winter months P-Yes; and perhaps the coast of Greenland would be another place, or off the Jan Mayen Islands.
319. But you would find it difficult at the present moment to indicate areas which might be closed as to which you would be prepared to be cross-examined to justify them?--I think so, certainly.
(Mr. Lamb.) I might explain about the Scotch limitation. That only applies during June practically you may not kill within 40 miles during June. That is for the herring fisheries; the whales are then engaged on their duties of herding the herrings.
(Mr. Holt.) There is power in Ireland to make such regulations, but we never had occasion to make them.
320. That again is for the protection of the fisher- man, not for the protection of the whale. (To the wit ness.) Then on the subject of close seasons you say, "Apparently the breeding season in most cases is in winter and early spring, which is already closed by Nature because of weather conditions." There you are referring to the North Atlantic ?—Yes.
321. There you think you get natural protection, if that is so P-Yes; Nature forms a close season if that in Jo.
322. At first sight (this is, perhaps, not quite a fair question to ask), assuming that is so, and assuming that whales reach maturity in two or three years, would you not expect that the stock would keep itself going As regards the North Atlantic P-Not supposing that we assume that the young whales leave every year from the breeding quarters and move south and then are
[Continued.
moving north again in the hunting season, because you are hunting the whales born in each year the next season, and you are hunting them before they are
mature.
323. Still a good deal depends, does it not, on the percentage of the total number that is taken ?--Cer- tainly; that comes into the original argument about the percentage of the total number caught.
324. I have been told by Mr. Daniel that the general opinion of the fishermen was that about one in ten of the whales seen were actually captured, in other words 10 per cent. per annum ?-Yes, that was a part of Captain Braun's argument, and as the total number became less, so the percentage would really fall as well. 325. The important point there seems to be killing off the nature; you mean getting nearer killing off the immature ? Getting nearer the stage where by natural wear and tear you will get the birth-rate lower than the death-rate.
326. Is there anything in the nature of a general statement you would wish to make ?--I do not think so. I think that all the information I have is included in my statement. There is one point (I do not think it is really important to mention it) which you have missed. There is an assumption that whales off the Irish coast towards the end of the season are moving south, and that then they winter in the Mediterranean. It seems to me impossible. The Prince of Monaco has seen Balaenoptera musculus in the Mediterranean and a few other species, the other species not being species which are ordinarily hunted, but it seems to me impos sible that any number of fin whales could possibly winter in the Mediterranean without their being hunted, or caught, or seen at least. I merely mention it be cause apparently that is one of the traditional spots.
327. It occurs to me now to ask (probably I have missed some points) how would this movement south in the latter part of the year square with the other two propositions, that the movement for parturition is northwards, and the parturition takes place in the winter and early spring -The movement south. I take it, is not seen at all until the very end of the season, which might be October, and they might be just the first ones which have moved north very early and are coming back. That would merely apply to the first.
328. Really there would be more or less of a con- tinuous stream?—Yes.
329. (Mr. Holt.) These movements would both be contrary to the general Atlantic drift ?—That is rather across from west to east.
330. From south-west to north-east in winter the warm salt water comes up and recedes again later on? -Yes. There is a point in connection with that; the Bottle-nose whale, the one I mentioned moving into the Norwegian sea after the squids, apparently is found very largely just on the border-line between the Arctic That is apparently water and the warmer drift in. entirely because of the food.
331. The Bottle-nose is the fellow who runs into the Voes at Shetland, is it not P-Yes, it is the one closely related to the sperm whale.
(The Witness withdrew.)
Mr. D. G. LILLIE called and examined,
(Witness.) I have written out a few points. My evidence is chiefly concerned with the Southern Hemi- sphere. I have not done much in the North. I did a little for a year, but have not followed it up very far, and I do not propose to say anything about the Northern Hemisphere.
932. (Chairman.) We are rather anxious to get evidence on the Southern Hemisphere because the great majority of the whaling now is going on there, as you know, and we want to get on to the point P--With regard to the evidence for the need of protection it is very difficult to bring black and white evidence forward, but I have talked to a good many whaling captains down in the Southern Hemisphere, and they say that
the Island of Kerguelen, which used to be a very favour- able spot, has now become useless to them; they cannot get enough to make it worth working there. They also say that at the Falkland Islands two of the types of whales, the Blue whale and the common Fin whale, Balaenop tera sibbaldii and Balaenoptera musculus, have been killed off and they have only the Balaenoptera borealis there, which is a smaller one. That whale always seems to turn up when the other two have been killed off or driven away. They are not sure whether the whales around these islands of Kerguelen and the Falk- land Islands have been exterminated or merely driven Away somewhere else. So that it seems to me very difficult to know whether the whales have been driven
23 January 1914.]
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
Mr. D. G. LILLIE.
away from a place when they become acaroe (and they undoubtedly have become soaroe), or whether they have been killed off. The whalers admit that they have been killed off at a tremendous rate, because the fishing 'at the South Shetlands and South Georgia has been going on for some years, and they are killing them off in great numbers annually, there being nothing to stop them. Some of the companies just take the blubber off the whales and throw away the carcases, and another type of company go out there without harpoons and simply buy the carcases from the blubber people and boil them. There is terrific slaughter going on there. but nobody can say whether the whales are actually getting scarce or whether they have been driven from place to place. There are still any amount of whales in the Southern Hemisphere, especially in the Ross Sən ares, but I could not be sure whether they have been driven there from other places or whether they belong there. The whalera admit that the whales are just beginning to get appreciably fewer in the Southern Hemisphere. I cannot bring any black and white evidence for that, because I do not think there is any. The general assumption (I agree with Mr. Burfield) up in the Northern Hemisphere is that the whales are getting smaller on the whole, which looks as if they were getting soarcer; but it is not possible to say whether that happens in the Southern Hemisphere: they appear to keep up a large average in aize. The Southern Hemisphere has a very great area of water, and there are so many whales that I do not think that position has arrived yet. I do not think that you could say from the smallness of size that there was a diminution, although the whalers admit they are killing them off at a tremendous pace, and they think the day will come when there will be a diminution. That is why they are intending to go ahead now and benefit from the in- dustry while it lasts. You have to take all this for what it is worth, of course.
333. You are speaking now, I take it, of what one might call, roughly speaking, the Antarctic waters ?— Yes, I am dealing with the Southern Hemisphere roughly up to about latitude 30 South. The people I have been talking to have been working up to that latitude. There seems to be very little whaling done north of 30 South in the Southern Hemisphere, except on the west coust of Africa.
334. Would that take in the West African coast ?--- As far as I can make out the majority of the whal- ing in the Southern Hemisphere is done round the coasts of the three great Continents, round the west and east of South Africa, the east and west side of South America, especially on the west side of South America, and on the west side of Australia, not much on the east side. The general tendency is to regard the best area as the Antarotic area that is down at the South Shetlands and South Georgis, because there seems to be more plankton there. On the "Terra Nova" we took very careful plankton samples from New Zealand to Antarctic waters, and we found the quantitative results most interesting. The plankton rises rapidly in quantity as you leave the warmer waters and approach the Antarctic, and, of course, the whales follow the plankton because it is their food.
335. You say that the plankton increases in quantity when you get to the cold water P-Yes, there is some evidence of this; also there is some evidence, I believe, that the plankton round the coast is much greater than the plankton in the open sea, so that the poorest whaling districts should be in the warm open seas, the best whaling districts in the Antarctic (and, of course, the same for the Arotic), and the medium whal. ing districts round the coasts of Continents below, in the Southern Hemisphere, latitude 30° South. The second best districts are on the west coast of South America, both sides of Africa, and the west of Aus- tralia. They are decidedly secondary, and the whaling captains I have talked to, who have come from those areas, admit that their profits are very much smaller than those of the people who have taken out a licence more to the southward. They are getting the main pull down there, and making 130 per cent, dividend. can divide the Southern Hemisphere whaling into three distinct classes, the third class being the open
(G)20410-E▼ 1, &c.
[Continued.
17
seas, which are untouched, and I do not think they will be resorted to for a long time.
336. Do you think, as you have mentioned that point, that in the open sea areas there is plenty of stookP-The Balasoñopteridae have not been touched, but the general opinion is that there are very few whales there. Whalers Bay that they have crossed open areas in their bosta going to the southern stations and that was the result of their observation, and in our own case we saw very few whales in the open ocean. They seem to hang around the coast. I can quite under- stand that, because the distribution of the plankton seems to support it; the rivers bring down nitroge nous material into the sea, and where you have on the const plenty of rivers you get more plankton and more whales. On the east of Australia you get very few rivers and very little plankton, and whales are very
rare.
On the west you have a auocessful company working, but they will not touch the east side.
337. That relation between plankton and whales seems to come out in your operations P-Yes. I think that is all I can say about the need of protection. As to areas of migration No. 2, I have a good deal of fairly clear evidence. I can vouch for the Humpback evidence, because I was at a station near the Bay of Islands, New Zealand, for four months one year, and five weeks another year. I have had two years'observationa there, and I saw undoubted migrations of the Humpback, but whether for breeding or not is not so sure. It in suggested, and I have some evidence to show, that they were breeding migrations, but it is not absolutely con- clusive.
338. Shall I read your notes for the benefit of the Committee or will you do it-The following is the migration of Megaptera longimana, or Humpback, in the New Zealand part of the Southern Hemisphere. This whale spends the summer in the sub-Antarctic and in the Antarctic down to the pack. We have not seen them and never heard of anybody else having seen a Humpback whale actually in the ice, although they go near it. They may be seen at latitude 67° 8. if the ice is fairly free. None have been seen in the pack. They migrate north during the winter. That is a point I have been investigating. The first whales of the season pass the Bay of Islands to the north of New Zealand going north towards the end of April. Most pass the Bay of Islands guing north in May. They are supposed to go about as far north as Norfolk Island. There has been a whaling station at Norfolk Island, but they have not found it pay to have any whaling stations north of Norfolk Island; so that it looks as if the Southern Hemisphere whales which go to the Antarctio do not go further north than Norfolk Island. They are supposed, accord- ing to the whalers (and there is something to support it), to breed between Norfolk Island and New Zealand, a very wide area. The people I have talked to seem very olear about that. The first whales are seen passing south of the Bay of Islands about the middle of September. That I have verified on two occasions-the middle of Sep- tember; all the whales you see after that date seem to be turning south; the ones that have gone up to the warmer water for breeding come down again, and you have the same continual stream south as you formerly had north. By the end of December all the whales are south of New Zealand, and the whalers have to stop hunting. They shut up shop in December and thei they go down to the Campbell Islands, so that the Bay of Islands season is from April to December. That is very clear; it is the only really clear case of whale migration that I have ever come across. The slack part of the season at the Bay of Islands is from July to September; that is when the whales have all gone north, and they have not begun to come south again, Humpbacks appear to be shore lovers, and it is quite a common thing to see them going in between rocks and hanging close to the shore, and there is no doubt about it, they do prefer shallow water. Possibly they breed in shallow water. This same type of north and south migration is supposed to occur on the west coast of Australia, on the west and east of Africa, and to some extent on both sides of South America. I have not been able to examine it myself, but I have talked to people who have; but it would require further work of
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