178
CROWN AGENTS' ENQUIRY COMMITTEE :
SUB-COMMITTEE ON SHIPPING AND PACKING ARRANGEMENTS.
Meeting on Tuesday, 27th October, 1908,
At the Colonial Office, Downing Street.
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PRESENT:
COLONEL J. E. B. SEELY, D.S.O., M.P. (Chairman of Principal Committee).
Sir ALBERT SPICER, Bart.. M.P.
(Chairman of Sub-Committee). Sir RALPH MOOR, K.C.M.G.
4244. (Sir Crown Agen:
Most of then
R. Bailey, Esq., M.V.O., L.S.O. C. A. HARRIS, Esq., C.B., C.M.G.
A. J. HARDING (Secretary).
4245. Ther
until it is ·
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docks, but a
Mr. T. H. HOLT, called and examined.
4219. (Colonel Seely.) May I explain to you that this is a Sub-Committee of a Committee appointed by the Secretary of State for the Colonies to enquire into the staff and business of the Crown Agents' Office. You, I understand, are the senior partner of Messrs. Freelands, and do a great deal of their shipping business 7-Yes, but I am not the senior partner.
4220. In order to understand what staff there
Col. SEELY withdrew and SIR
4221. (Sir Ralph Moor.) You do the entire shipping business of the Crown Agents' Office?—Yes.
4222. Is your firm engaged in any other shipping work beyond that?-We do any business that comes in our way; we are not confined entirely to the Crown Agents.
4223. You are not under any agreement with them that you should not take outside work?-No.
4224. But, as a matter of fact, do you take any out- side work? To a certain extent we do, but not very much.
4225. Is it any appreciable proportion of your busi- ness the outside work beyond the Crown Agents 7- Not very much.
4226. Then practically your entire organisation as a firm is necessitated by the requirements of the Crown Agents?—Yes.
4227. So that we might almost regard you as a branch of their office?-Practically as a part of their office.
4228. Under those circumstances would you mind telling the Committee what your organisation consiste of, that is, your partners, and so on, and the entire organisation of your office?-The names of our part- ners?
4229. No, only the question of numbers, I think?-- I have two partners; we have a staff of 25 clerks, and we have the whole of the house in Great St. Helens.
4230. There are three partners and 25 clerks in the office; and what out staff?-We have agents in all the shipping ports like Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Cardiff, and Bristol.
4231. How many of those agents, roughly? They are not permanent employees of yours?-No.
should be, and how it should be organised, it is plain that we must understand the business that you con trol. I am chairman of the whole Committee of which this is a Sub-Committee, and I have only to say on behalf of the whole Committee that we are very much obliged to you for coming at such short notice, and we shall be much indebted to you for the evidence you are to give us.
RALPH MOOR took the Chair.
4232. Your only permanent employees are the 25 clerks?—Yes.
4233. Are those engaged entirely in London 7— Entirely.
1234. And the work at the out-ports you do through agents of your own?—Yes but we have to arrange for the shipment and leave it in their hands to attend actually to putting the cargo on board. We have to collect and get the cargo ready, and then engage the freight and leave it to the agents.
4235. Actually to superintend the shipment?-The shipment at these ports. We do the whole of the business here.
4236. That brings us to the general system you have with the Crown Agents in receiving the orders; I think perhaps the Committee would like you to tell us yourself, without my questioning, exactly the sys- tem operating as between the Crown Agents and your own firm as shipping agents-the exact management of the whole transaction.
(Mr. Harris.) May we first have the number of the agents at the out-ports, roughly?--I think the Chair- mian has already asked the question-Liverpool, Glasgow, Middlesbrough, Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Antwerp, and occasionally Hamburg.
4237. (Sir Ralph Moor.) Would you now tell us the operation of the system which has been established as between yourselves and the Crown Agenta ?--In the first instance the Crown Agenta order the stores from the suppliers, and after the contracts or orders are let they send to us what is called a shipping order, that is, giving us the names of the stores, the names of the contractors, the dates when they are due, the value, and the Crown Agents' inspector. After that the Crown Agents practically leave the whole of the business in our hands.
4238. (Mr. Bailey.) Does the inspector have nothing more to do than to examine the quality of the goods? Has he nothing to do about expediting delivery, and so on?—No; that is for us to report to the Crown Agents when they get behindhand. Then we have to be continually writing to those contractors when cargo is due, and to get the shipping particulars, and arrange the freights and see that the cargo has been passed and certified by the inspector before it is ordered forward. Of course, we are always trying to make combinations and as good bargains as for a cargo.
We can
4239. By combinations, you mean arrangements to make up a fair amount of freight 7-Yes, so that we shall get the best possible terms of freight.
4240. (Sir Ralph Moor.) You try to group the par- cels? Yes. The Crown Agents order their cargo in every part of England practically, from every well- known maker, so that it takes a considerable amount of work to get this cargo together and arrange the parcels so as to get the best terms. Then the nature of the cargoes that the Crown Agents deal with is very varied that it needs a considerable amount of
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• 21
178
CROWN AGENTS' ENQUIRY COMMITTEE: