PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O.885
19 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
118
17 July 1908]
CROWN AGENTS ENQUIRY COMMITTEE:
Mr. F. W. BLACK, C.R.
2470. Have you any stated times to advertise? In the care of the War Oilice we are told it is once a year they advertise for firms to go on the list; do you de that-No, the War Oflice," I believe, issue a general We issue advertisement, but the Admiralty do not. advertisements for particular things, but in certain things we are known as layers, and I suppose we are known practically to all the trades in the country. say, for instance, our big requirement for shipbuilding naterial.
2471. What do you do when a firm writes in you and says. “We want to go on your list? The pro cedure then is to ask for references first of all; we then enquire of the references, and if they are at all satisfactory our next step is to send a practical man. an inspector, down to the works to find out
lini are
their facilities. Perhaps 1 might say that it is part of the Admiralty policy, and has been for 40 years, to avoid the middleman as far as possible; we try to deal straight home with the manufacturer, and there fore we go down to see that he has works tapable of meeting our requirements.
2472. Now supposing he fulfils all these tests, is he pun the list Then we put him on thest.
2473, (Mr. Gibson.). Do you send an inspector from your Department or from the requisitioning Depart of two depart ment?-It may be from ments; if it is just a question of ordinary stures I send one of my inspectors, but if it is a technical matter such as skiphrilling materials, steel forgangs or castings, an ice of our Constracije Department
Engiu ring Department would make the inspec tion. It depends entirely upon the nature of the supplies.
2174. (Sir Francis Mosently Speaking generally, LA properly qualified firm that can give you get referees and "desins to get upon your list can get upon the list? Yes, we are not restrictive if the firm is qualified.
2175. And the extent and regularity of your de
The purpose of an a mand are such as to th vertisement, that is to say, that it notifies all firms of any position that you will want things, and if they want to tender that is what they should do? Ther
cort in things we are not known buyers of. but it is known to the whole of the United Kingdom that the Admiralty boulds ships and has to maintain them in commission, and therefore in all the big tracks, we have practically little need to advertise. In the case of other things we are her known bay. - f wust either adverty s or what 1 in quently dist to plan aspetor own intertant district to whether he can find alitional suitable firms turn up the advertisements, perhaps, of diffent firs and then send round and whether they are snital and would care to come on our list.
I
2176 Chuld you give au înstunees of sane pastienbut material of that sort. A pesni instare saw in the hosiery trade, The Admiralty took to making karar supplas of clothing for wamen, such as pants xni things like that, which are got from the Boy mushr's Store, ami 1 had a lock round for quas eqteracters, I went first fall to the Wer Office, as they was lugar 1 tril mud we get their best huy then mol their and I sent an inspeet rein 1th F. shiral Nottinghamshire districta,
9177. (ode 4, a Say that you want 190600 pairs. of parts, whest happens bout? We then pane Tenders; why we are hot ladvertising we simply semel ent the
27. To all th phoon your list 2. In mood come a unless it happens to be a very small easita' require. 2214-11
thang urgently wanted, when I teav make avion of half a dozen.
2479, Be for a big ember you send to emerykooli, and they all tender 7-. Yes,
2187. Th set them m the wad way. and at the taking what you thick will be cheapest sate titue a very good article? Yes and th delivery is a very important thing with us.
2151. At the inspection of both works mind stores. does that d vidve na Sope Elepartment - No, I have no responsibility for the examination of the stores for quality. That levolves upon italojondent profession il
officers, except that I am entitled to assist them with all the iuforination 1 can collect from the trade, and I frequently do that.
2482. When you have decided that these 1005, 81 pairs of pants can best be bought from Smith and Jones your responsibility ends; is that it —Practic ally, yes. Of course, any correspotuletes as to fanity deliveries or late deliveries to a large extent is carried out by me.
2183. If it is satisfactory you, hear nothing more about 11, but if it is unsatisfactory you are informed ' --Yes.
2181, (Sir Albert Spicer) You comiter the corres pondence? Yes, except that we should probali, order these things to be delivered at the Victualling Store, and the storekeeping officer on the spot would be entitled to write to the firm and give the dates of deliveries, but if anything like reprimanding the con- tractor, or pulling pressure upon him, had to be done, the case would at once le rejserted to me.
215, (Sir Francis Aluwulf. But in the instance of the gods supplied not being up to quality, what would happen Then I hear of 11.
216. Then the requisitioning other would call your attention to it. but you would take up the
Is th Correspondence with the contractor? That case: we should either reject »ntright or we should ask for sane abatement of price to be made according to the report upon it.
2150. Baifego Ani you would consider the Yes. propriety of inviting that firm, to ti wher again' if it was a bad ease.
2188, 18ir Frautis Moralty Finally, does the re spensibility for neerpang the tender as satisfactory. Test with you or with the Requisitioning Department 24
In all With me or with the Board of Admiralty. ordinary cases 1 hase discretion, but I am requiresi in certam important cases, for wh re special questions arise, to for those to the Requisitioning or Profess siceral Departments, and to the Board.
219 The point I rather wanted to get at was this there might come a case in which you accepted the gokus à full carrying out of the contract and the Requisitioning Department said “We do not agree with yon; we think the cubur is wrong and the mate- rial is not gol”; who derides such "n ense? - Tha: evuld not happen, because the indepen-kent surveying ativer with attend to all these points; Llaves mò ng sponsiblity for that.
2. Ultimately who to resgeusible · The examin- ger: the echnical hier who examines the goods has before him, of course, the specification: he postdy has a sample subinted by the contractor, And he has the Government Maniard pantern in many
2991. If lo parses the m, the Requisitioning Depart· In some ment canned complain any further? No. cases, for instans in the case of the Victualling 1 partment. Examining Offegs are attached in the department. In the case of the dockyaris, they ar independent others; they are either the shaploid 2- or enginers of the dockyard or an independent ex amining other directly under the Superintendent of the Yard. We attach a good deal of importance. ** keeping the Examining Oilleer as independent as pess sible. Both of the Department that buys the stores an! the Department that holds the stocks and issues, ther
2492. Then the Inspecting Officer can, in practic. determine the final acceptance of the contract. Yem. but we make a strong print of two things: first of all. we ayish the Insporting Other, if he is in any doube at all, to appeal to us for expert trade assistance, and that is very from ba, and all our contracts have at arbitration clause on quality. Another poimi that if a contractor Els aggrieved by the actim of the Inspects Offer, he has an apps to the Diretor f Contracts to the Admiralty: we may now perhaps htit preved 10 aristration at that stage, but we mesy send down a teebnenl other from headquarters, t form an independent ginton; in fact I should m ariably ran for that if I thought thern was ac chapes of art arbitration hat 1-
1 shon!! make sure of my ground.
י!
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
Mr. F. W. BLACK, C.B.
2493. (Mr. Gibson.) Your tenders, which are re- ceived for any important class of article, you would refer probably, before acceptance, to the Requisition- ing Officer for concurrence 7--Only in a very impor- tant case; in 99 cases out of 100 the case is so clear, there being a pattern, a specification, and a specific date of delivery, so clearly defined, that we can go straight ahead and accept. I immediately acquaint the Department with what I have done; 1 give them a copy of every order.
2494. But it would be too late for him to object ?— But he has had his say when he has given ing the requisition.
245. He does not ask you what firm is to be allowed to be accepted ?--No, that is my responsibility, with certain exceptions,
246. In any case of dispute, I think the Financial Secretary would decide between you and the Requisi- ting firer?--Yes; the Board come in in those
visi1B.
2497. (Mr. Harris.) What is the check against any llusion between the Inspecting Officer and the con- tractor-In most cases, of course, the Inspecting Officer is stationed at the Naval Establishment, anl The Regulations as to intercourse with contractors are very strict. I think that is our general protection. In some cases we inspect at the works of the firm; we have a resident overseer.
musen your
2198, When you say "we," do yon department? The Admiralty the professional De- partment of the Admiralty: for instance, take steel tubes as an example, or steel plates, we have aversers stationed to watch the manufacture, ami in textile gols we have an officer down in the district.
2190). (Choition. Will you tell us how these things ne shipped to distant parts of the world? What do yes do then! All our bulky material going out to Jongn stations would be sent to the nearest port. We should make our contract that it was to be passed by the overeer at the works, and then sent on to Laver- pod. Glasgow, or such port as we might nauw for Shipment to a foreign station. That is what happens in the case of steel plates or heavy machinery.
2500. How do you schert the shipping company to arry it? That is done by shipping agents in the City setsag under the orders of the Dirvetor of Transports. The overseer teports to the storekeeping ofliver of our shupping depit that such and such ruaterial is ready.
2901. Your shipping depot where is that?--We have a shipping depší at the West frulia Docks for naval stores, and there we make direct shipments our- -les of all the small things.
2502. in your own ships Very little; in freight ken up by the Transport Department of the Admiralty.
2503. The Director of Transports is to person who bende, which company shall carry the good? Yes, bat meach of the ordinary freight is arranged by the Jupping agents in the City under the supervision of que" Director of Transports.
2001. He works through a shipping agent in the Uy Yes,
2005. Who do practically all his work for him, you say? The Director of Transports see every en- sigement of freight and examines all the prices that one pard, and is in constant touch with that shipping agent. Of course, in lag cases, taking up a whole ship, the Director of Transport, would probably do it hanself, but in an ordinary engagement of freight of day, 150 tons of miscellaneous stores, the agents in the Cty would go round to enquire the test terms and select the ship, consulting the Director of Transports as might be necessary.
2706. You do not know how they do that ? Well, it For very much depends on the date of sailing.
FICI stations there are expensive freights and cheap freights. As a rule, we sen by the cheaper beat, unless it is a very urgent case worth paying a luzh and special mail Steanier rate for. We have a system of classifying our degrees of urgency, and that is laid down for the guidance of the shipping agents.
119
[17 July 1968.
If an article is inarked "Specially urgent," they would send it by the next mail steamer; but if it were marked Ordinary despatch," it would go by the cheapest steam freight boat going at the required date. 2507. (Sir Francis Moratt.) Is the selection of the ship absolutely in the hands of the shipping agent ?—–—– would not like to say alsolutely. I am talking of the transactions of a Department 1 have never served in, that of the Director of Transports; but I know It is under very close supervision and that he is on direct telephone to the shipping agents and constantly in communication with them. In some cases the Director of Transports would probably give the order: This must go by as. bo and So, on such and such a date."
2508. Is that shipping agent an Admiralty oflicer or an agent doing business oli his own account?—On his
WR accoklat.
25000 Is there more than one?—No, for that purpose we have only one. We have for coals a separate firm
in South Wales, but for general stores we act through "
tir in the Uny.
2719, (M), třibson.) The Transport Department has never carried out the whole of the shipping arrange. ments do not think so, and I can speak of 25 years back. We have had a shipping agent the whole
of that time.
2511, (Nir Albert Spiece). Who appoints that agent? Thu Admiralty would appoint him.
2812. (Chairman.) The Board? The Board of Admiralty just as they do their coal siupping agents. 2513. (M. Bailey,) Has it been the same firm the whole 25 years? Yes, to my recollection.
2511. Is the bulk of the business done with them very large? It is not quite su big as it was because The 1 hat more concentrats in flour water and we have not the same number of Foreiga Depôts, but the bulk of it as very considerable,
2515. (Mr. Gibson.) is there not a special item in the Vote Commission to the Admiralty shipping agents for engaging freight for Naval Stores £1,750, an merease of £270 on the previous year? Yes, Per- haps I might mention that some of our contracts for Javy machinery, nul in some cases for steel plates and so forth, are made to melude delivery at the foreign depot.
25116 4 ¿rirnaan.) In which case the firm which sapplies the goods would arrange for the transport !---- YS, but it is not every manufacturing firm that cares to undertake the shipinent as well.
2517, (Sir Francis Mowatt.) Do you know what is the percentage that is represent d by the couLTRUISSION 1 the shipping agents. Is it 2 per cent., or what?
would not tell."
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2718. (Mr. Gichawa.). You could get that information
Yes and add it to your answer?
2519. (Chorje mute.) Will you tell us alwart your staff? First of all, how are they recruited 1 it by the
rimary Civil Service examination ? - Yes, mainly.
2521. Will you tell us the constitution of your staff, how many there are of the Higher Division and how many of the Lower Division ?—At present we have first of all text to myself the Assistant Director of Con- tracts; there are two superintending clerks. there are five upper division clerks, one staff clerk and four second division clerks, that is 14 in all. Including the staff clerk as a supervising or directing officer and including the assistant director, my principal directing staff consists of 9 persons besides myself.
2521. What is the total of all grades The total staff of my Department, including all boys and junior clerks, is about 54 or 55 at the present time.
2529, Does it seem to you a good plan to recruit your staff by the ordinary Civil Service methods, aral in that way do you got sufficiently good men to do the various technical and commercial lines of busi- ness" Leaving out the word "technical,” my answer to that is * Yes, we do.” Of course, I ought to say that many of the junior clerks under the system intro- dlaced into my Department some 6 or 7 years ago are