PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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Reference :-
C.O.885
18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH——NOT TO
Thirteenth Day.
8 May 1907.
NAVAL DEFENCE
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NAVAL DEFENCE.
CHAIRMAN: I understand that different members of the Conference have had interviews with the Admiralty, and the First Lord is now prepared to state to the Conference the result of those interviews and try to get your decision on the whole subject.
Lord TWEEDMOUTH : Lord Elgin and gentlemen, since we last met I have had the opportunity of having conversations with various of the Prime Ministers, and also with their colleagues, and they have had some conferences with some of my colleagues at the Admiralty also. I do not know that I have any very definite plan to propose to you. I can only repeat what I said before, that at the Admiralty we are most anxious to meet the wishes of the various Colonies. But, of course, the real difficulty is that the position varies in the different Colonies and they have very different wants.
The basis that I think we want to go upon is in the first place to acknowledge that it is perfectly impossible in modern warfare to improvise defence; we must have it ready. That is the case with the army, no doubt; but it is still more so in any naval operations, because you require to have the ships, and you require to have the men and officers, who have to undergo a long and severe training.
Now the situation, it seems to me, is this. I will take a colony separately, or I will take Australia and New Zealand together, because the agreement with New Zealand and with Australia is a tripartite one-New Zealand, Australia and ourselves. We all hang together in the existing agreement, and all are mutually bound. Australia now gives a sum to the Admiralty of 200,000l. under certain conditions, and New Zealand gives 40,000. The Cape Colony gives 50,000l., Natal 35,000l., and Newfoundland 3,0001.
As I understand, Australia puts forward a proposal that the agreement of 1902 should be ended, and that Australia should start something in the way of a local defence force. I do not know how far New Zealand concurs in that suggestion. Sir Joseph Ward asked for some information on the subject, and he had some talk at the Admiralty about it. He asked that some information might be given to him with regard to the cost of such a local defence, which in effect was to be founded on the establishment of a force of submarines. I do not know what is Sir Joseph's view, but I think it is rather important I should know the exact position he takes up if he adopts the idea of the possible establishment of a submarine service. I think, shortly, it may be stated that each submarine would probably cost about 50,000l. capital expenditure for building, and probably each submarine might cost about 8,000l. to keep going every year-I mean, to pay the men and keep it in repair, maintain the necessary appliances, and so forth. Then comes a question as to the manning of a submarine, because that is a very important inatter. The submarine men must be very highly trained. I think there would be two ways of meeting that. One would be by sending the men over to this country and getting them trained here, and probably the training might be done in a year. "I think it would certainly take a year before the men would be competent to do the duties required of them in a submarine. Or it might be done in another way. Provided the flotilla were large enough, we could send a crew, or more than a crew, out to the Colony which would be able to train men belonging to the particular Colony in the work they had to do.
Then comes the question of South Africa. There, again, I believe the idea of submarines is not altogether opposed to the opinion of the South African representatives, and I believe that the establishment of a flotilla of submarines by degrees would be favourably considered, at any rate in Cape Colony; I do not know what Mr. Moor would say with regard to Natal. As I understand, the South African Colonies as a whole would like to have some
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definite force of their own, either a submarine flotilla, or help with regard to their naval volunteers at Cape Town, Port Elizabeth and in Natal. Again we should be very glad to give some help with regard to that.
Thirteenth Day.
8 May 1907.
ought to have said first, that so far as concerns the flag under which the NAVAL DEfence. submarines would sail, probably they would fly the white ensign but with
a special mark on the flag-say the Southern Cross for Australia.
Mr. DEAKIN: We have the Union Jack with the Southern Cross besides.
Lord TWEEDMOUTH: That is the sort of proposal to which we should be prepared to agree supposing that particular plan were adopted.
I do not think I need say anything with regard to Newfoundland. understand that the Newfoundland view is that the present system should be maintained. The Government of Newfoundland would be very glad if a greater number of men were added to the Naval Reserve in Newfoundland, and they would be ready to give some further help in addition to the present 3,000l. which is paid by Newfoundland.
Sir ROBERT BOND: Upon precisely the same basis-yes.
Lord TWEEDMOUTH: Yes, upon the same basis. With regard to Canada, I think I may say there has perhaps been some exaggeration in the idea that Canada does not do anything for the Empire in this matter. I think not sufficient account has been taken of the work they have done in taking up the protection of fisheries. They are very anxious to extend that work, and they have now taken over the dockyards at Halifax and Esquimalt, which I hope the Dominion will keep up and improve. I think that is really a very considerable contribution towards the general upkeep of our naval interests. There is at present no proposition from Canada to make any change at all, but I think it is proposed that matters shall go on very much as they have gone on, except that the Canadian representatives announce that they are anxious to do all that they can to expand the interest in the Navy throughout the Dominion, and in that way think that they will be really giving a great help to the Empire as a whole.
I think the important point we have to consider is the present situation
in the various Colonies which already pay subsidies.
Then there is the question of manning. Of course Australia has already a considerable number of Naval Reserve men and men who are in the Navy. There are going to arrive here next week, on the 20th, 30 Australians and 10 New Zealanders, who are going to join British ships in this country for training. We shall welcome them very heartily, and I hope that they will gain great good by their visit and by the training they will receive.
Mr. DEAKIN: The training they are coming for is the higher training which could not be obtained on the squadron.
Lord TWEEDMOUTH: Yes. You have now in Australia, I think, nearly 1,000 men of one sort or another who have been connected with the Navy or who are in the Reserve and so forth. If Australia prefers to terminate the arrangement with regard to the subsidy, the burden of those men would naturally fall upon Australia. That would be one of the things that would have to be provided for if the subsidy were dropped.
Mr. DEAKIN: Yes.
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(Lord Tweed-
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