PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
mmimmimi C.O.885
18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
Thirteenth Day. application of their law.
investigation. 8 May 1907,
COASTWISE
TRADE.
(Sir
Wilfrid Laurier).
24
We want to affirm this resolution for further
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I agree with you on the question of trade between Canada and New Zealand. I confess the facts which you have given me now, and the facts which Sir Joseph Ward has given, deserve close attention. I could not pretend that this question of coasting trade is new to me, and certainly it is not new to the department over which I preside, as they have gone into it over and over again. So far as the Mother Country is I think it would be concerned, we have gone into it very carefully. misleading if we said we would consider that question further, as if we had not considered it. Sir Wilfrid Laurier wants to consider the question of the trade between one Colony and another.
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Between British countries.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: If you leave out trade between the Mother Country and the Colonies, and simply say coastwise trade between one Colony or British possession and another, that is where you seem to be hit. We here are not hit at all. The balance of advantage is enormously on our side. To pretend to look into a transaction which is so enormously in our own favour as if it were a grievance would be misleading. I agree that you are very hard hit as between Canada and New Zealand and Australia.
Mr. DEAKIN: Is it ouly when you have an immediate grievance that inquiry is justified or necessary? Ought there not to be a certain amount of protective preparation? Is not the fact that you are considering the various devices by which various nations endeavour to foster their own trade at your expense, a useful thing to be known? Should we not show that at all events you are following these things with close attention. You are not of opinion at present that they do you any substantial injury, but a proposition may be launched within the next month or two which would do substantial injury. Are you prejudiced in any way by inquiry? Are you not justified in letting it be known that your attention has been directed to this danger by the representatives of the Dominions beyond the Seas.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: But I do not want to alarm the shipping industry here. The balance is enormously in their favour. They do not want to call too much attention to it.
Mr. DEAKIN: This resolution has stood since 1902 without occasioning
any alarm.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I agree, as between one British possession and another there is a case; but there is no case to look into so far as our shipping trade with America is concerned. The advantage is overwhelmingly on one side. The same thing applies to Russia.
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: If this is an Imperial Conference, as we believe it is, questions have to be looked into, not only from the point of view of the United Kingdom, but all its Possessions. It does not affect you so far as the United Kingdom is concerned, but it affects us. We are part of the British Empire, and it seems to me, therefore, the question brought up justifies more inquiries, without at all alarming anybody. "We say simply that it is desired to call attention to it.
25
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: No, not quite.
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: It is desirable that the attention of the Government of the United Kingdom and the Colonies should be called to the present state and to the advisability of refusing--
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: No, really, it would be very misleading. I am sure you will take it that, on the whole, we are the best judges of what the effect would be upon people here, how they would read it to-morrow morning, and would say: They are going to consider the question of reserving the coasting trades to themselves." We know the danger of that from the American point of view, where the balance of advantage is so enormously in our favour at present. The same thing with regard to Russia. But I do not mind you saying that you are going to look into the question of the way America is treating New Zealand or Australian shipping, because there you have a distinct grievance, and I think you ought to look into it. If I may say so, and I think the Chairman agrees, it could only be dealt with by Imperial legislation. Therefore it is for you to look into it.
Sir JAMES MACKAY: The same applies to the trade from Japan across to San Francisco, which is carried on by British ships. They are not allowed to take a passenger from Honolulu to San Francisco, or a ton of cargo-that is the case with the White Star Line, and other vessels.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: We cannot hit the Americans in our trade. They are not in our coasting trade at all.
Sir JOSEPH WARD: If you brought down a proposition to-morrow (which would be a little startling, I admit) to say that the trade between Ireland and England was coastwise trade, and that no American ship could take a passenger or a ton of cargo to or from Ireland either going or coming, you would be putting American ships in the same position as New Zealand and Australian ships are in now with regard to trading between them and America viâ Honolulu or any of the Hawaiian Islands.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: It would be incredible that we should commit the folly of doing so. We are practically carrying more than half the whole international trade of the United States of America, For us to do a thing of that sort would simply mean reprisals. I do not know how long it would take to carry a Bill through the House of Representatives and the Senate- I do not think so long as here, even under the guillotine--but there would be a Bill through in three weeks, a subsidies Bill, and we should have the trades of the Atlantic contested in competition which would be just as formidable as the American competition we had to meet in the fifties.
Sir JOSEPH WARD: I say at once it would be a very improper thing to do, I should be very sorry to see it done; but that is exactly what goes on so far as we are concerned in regard to Honolulu.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I think Sir Joseph Ward, Sir William Laurier, and Mr. Deakin have made a great case about that, but seeing that all the object you have in view is met by confining the resolution to an inquiry as to the trade between one British Colony and another, I think it would be misleading for us to subscribe to a resolution which looks really as if we were in favour of the principle of refusing the privileges of the coasting trade to foreign ships.
i 49270.
G
Thirteenth Day.
8 May 1907.
COASTWISE TRADE.