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rescind both agreements or to amend Commonwealth Agreement (1) by inserting an express provision excluding the revival of the New South Wales Agreement on the termination of the Commonwealth Agreement, and (2) by substituting in Clause 25, after 1913,' the words 'and no longer for all the words at present following that date."
Now, then, the proposal is that Sir Sandford Fleming telegraphs to his Govern- ment saying that that is the general sense of the Conference, and I hope adding that, so far as he is concerned, he thinks it advantageous to New Zealand's wishes. Would it be acceptable or not for me to make any expression of opinion to the New Zealand Government?
Mr. PEMBER REEVES: Of course they would give great weight to anything that you telegraphed.
But there is one point that is far too important to be passed over now, and that is that if we send this out as an invitation to the Commonwealth Government, I do not think we should send it without adding to it a request that the Common- wealth Government gives us the fullest assurance forthwith with that, that they will give us absolutely the same privileges as they give the Eastern Company in the event of an amended agreement with the Eastern being gratified. I do not know what you think of that, Sir Sandford, but that is a very very important point. There has been a difficulty at any rate, a great difficulty in getting an answer from them as to giving these facilities, which we understood they promised to give us years ago. We have had to cable, I think, three times, a considerable lapse of time going between each cable from the Board to ask, and we could not get an answer even for many weeks.
The CHAIRMAN: I think we had better keep that apart. I think myself all that we can do at the present stage is to make it quite clear that this is not a final settlement of the matter, that there are many other negotiations to proceed; this is only a first step. I do not think we had better go into other matters of controversy while this is in hand.
Mr. PEMBER REEVES: What words make it clear in the telegram?
The CHAIRMAN: I think we ought to add words that this is a first step, this invitation is not a final settlement of the matter, but a preliminary step to one.
Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: I should think that that would, perhaps, suggest this to the Commonwealth people: "Let us hear the whole case before we give an opinion on anything." I think I would proceed step by step, finish up one thing at a time; rather than enter upon new controversial ground.
The EARL OF JERSEY: I am instructed that the Commonwealth Government does recognise its duty of giving equal preferences and advantages to the Pacific Cable. I am instructed that they recognise that duty, and if they do not carry out that duty, the points on which they do not carry it out can be specified to them
later on.
Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: Yes, from time to time.
The EARL OF JERSEY: We could not do it in this telegram very well.
LORD STRATHCONA: Would you add "preparatory to further negotiations"; would you have that in it that this is merely a portion of it.
Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: It seems to me that that would hang up their decision until they had heard the whole story.
LORD STRATHCONA: Yes.
The EARL OF JERSEY: Yes.
Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: We are dealing now with an actual existing grievance that has been of long standing, and is, we are told, unalterable, except by consent. As to what Governments may do in the future in regard to matters under their control, that will be a subject for us to express an opinion upon.
35
LORD STRATHCONA: I merely suggested that with a view to finding some means by which Sir Sandford Fleming and Mr. Reeves could not only ask the opinion of their Government, but suggest that it might be desirable they would accede to it; it is merely with that view, I say so, that they would be able to give their own endorsement.
Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: But Mr. Pember Reeves and Sir Sandford Fleming, in their confidential despatches to their own Government, can intimate that this does not deal with all grievances. That the Conference intends to take up. I say, Mr. Reeves, in your confidential despatches to your Government, you can intimate to them that this particular subject you are cabling about is not the only one to be considered; but that the Conference is considering the future conduct of Govern- ments as well.
Mr. PEMBER REEVES: After this certainly, of course, we should do that, Sir William, but the point is, if I may be pardoned for saying so, it is extremely doubtful if not dangerous, simply to send the telegram, as it is proposed, without any indica- tion that that is not to be regarded by us as a settlement of the question.
The CHAIRMAN: What do you say to these words before the word "invites." "The Conference, therefore, in order to enable them to pursue their further delibera- tions invite
}}
The EARL OF JERSEY: Or put it "at the present stage of the proceedings." LORD STRATHCONA: Or “defer further consideration.”
The CHAIRMAN: Well, I think the words, " in order to enable them to pursue their further investigations," does make it very plain that this is a preliminary difficulty desirable to clear away: I think it would convey that impression pretty clearly.
a settlement, Mr. PEMBER REEVES: As a preliminary at arriving at that is what, of course, virtually we are doing, that is all; whether those words could be used or not I do not know. Yes, if possible Mr. Lyttelton's words would suit me very well.
LORD STRATHCONA: Would you say:
to facilitate further consideration."
Mr. PEMBER REEVES: Anything of that kind. The CHAIRMAN: I do not think it is very important.
Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: In order to permit a satisfactory and friendly settle- ment.
The CHAIRMAN: In order to enable them to.
The EARL OF JERSEY: In order to assist their deliberations.
The CHAIRMAN: That is what I have said.
The EARL OF JERSEY: I think that would be the best.
The CHAIRMAN: "In order to enable them to pursue their deliberations"; I
think it makes it quite clear. Then that is a facility to those deliberations.
LORD STRATHCONA: Or "to facilitate further."
The CHAIRMAN: Yes; "in order to facilitate their further deliberations." Certainly.
LORD STRATHCONA: I think Mr. Reeves would accept that. The CHAIRMAN: Yes.
LORD STRATHCONA: You are quite willing to accept that.
Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: Oh yes.
The CHAIRMAN: Then I think we had better adjourn till Monday. LORD STRATHCONA: It is of no consequence my being here, but I have an
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