PUBLIC
RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O. 882
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ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
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The increase of licences complained of is not an increase of arrack licences, but of facilities for legalised toddy rather than illicit toddy or illicit arrack. It was said --I think, by Mr. Thompson in the paper which he read that illicit sales had been sporadic, uncertain, and limited. I think those were the words be used, but certainly that is not the information which has been derived by us from everybody connected either with arrack or with the liquor trade in Ceylon. The evidence which comes before us is that it is not sporadic, that it is not uncertain, and that it is indeed unlimited, and that is one of the reasons we have felt it so necessary to deal with this matter from a temperance point of view.
Local Option has been suggested. It has been pressed by some; by others it is said that Local Option as understood in this country, but not practised in this country, could not be put in operation in Ceylon. The question, of course, will always arise as it did in the debates in the Legislative Council as to whether if you have Local Option you are to have it both ways, whether you are to have a vote for the increase of the shops which the Government have licensed as well as a possible vote for the decrease; but, as I said just now, the medium or middle suggestion of the consul- tation of local bodies might provide a convenient stepping stone to some larger method of acquiring a knowledge of the wishes of localities. (Hear, hear.)
Dr Fernando said that the illicit toddy sales, which he fully admitted were very large, were due to the slackness of the Administration, the slackness of the excise work as it was done. It is to deal with the past slackness or with the apparent Dr. difficulty of carrying out the existing law that this Bill has been introduced. Fernando said arrack taverns led to crime. I have no doubt that is so, but he did not state that toddy shops would have this effect, and where the consumption of toddy is dissociated from the tavern in which arrack which leads to crime is sold it is possible (I do not put it any higher than that) you may relieve the consumer of toddy from the immediate and contiguous temptation to consume the arrack which is the crime producer. The fear seems to have been expressed that the price of toddy would be lowered. I may repeat the same words used by Sir Hugh Clifford in the debate in which he said "a minimum price will be fixed below which toddy cannot be sold. A limit will be placed on the quantity which can be sold to any individual in any transaction for removal for consumption off the premises, and that, again, will be subject to even greater reduction should experience prove it is possible or advisable," and he went on to say with regard to arrack: "A further advantage I may note is that it will in all probability increase the retail price of arrack and thereby tend to discourage consumption." Those are the anticipations of the Govern- ment with regard to the increase of price and the reduction of amount which may be sold for personal consumption.
Mr. Jayatilaka, speaking on behalf of the Buddhists, put very strongly and very eloquently to us the feeling of his community on this subject. I can assure him that we view the opinions of centuries of the Buddhists on this matter with the deepest possible respect. We have certainly no desire to treat them as children, especially in memories of their great past, and I am sure that no one will regret more than he will to hear the admission of Mr. Ferguson that most of the arrack sellers belong to his great community. I can only hope that will be decreased in the future, and that a community with so great a reputation will be relieved from the responsibilty which Mr. Ferguson has placed upon them in that respect. He spoke about Local Option; he spoke about consultation of Local. Committees, to which I have already referred, but with regard to the general local option he made no about you suggestion to me as to how it should be carried out; and I would put this to local option, that I am strongly in favour of it in England where we have a more or less homogeneous community, but I can see possibly-I do not wish unduly to emphasise it at the moment that you might find in mixed communities great diffi- culty in carrying it into effect where the Mohammedans or the Buddhists, being by faith and by habit abstainers, attempted too urgently to put in force their religious and personal views against other communities who did not happen to hold either religiously or hygienically the same opinions, and, therefore, I think, in local option there might be a greater difficulty in carrying it into effect in a mixed community than in one of an exactly similar race.
Mr. Rigby spoke of the increased facilities which were being given for strong drink, meaning by that toddy, but not arrack, because there are no increased facili- ties being given for arrack; I hope, indeed, that the facilities will be decreased as the price
increased, but the increase of facilities which are supposed to be about to be given by this Bill for toddy are not really increased facilities. They are
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increased limitations. The facilities for illicit sale are almost boundless. The facili- ties which are offered by the limited number of legalised shops are not as great as those of illicit sale. Mr. Rigby was not in favour of local option, but was in favour of some form of local consultation if it could be attained.
Mr. Ferguson spoke, I think, of the increasing degradation which has arisen from the consumption of arrack since the year 1849 which he mentioned.
Mr. FERGUSON: The Commission reported to the House of Commons in 1849. Mr. HARCOURT: And you say that there has been an increasing degradation. Mr. Ferguson also referred with some feeling to Sir William Gregory's red map, which he says has disappeared. Perhaps with the new era we might start a new map in which progress or retrogression in the sale might be marked on it month by month. Mr. Ferguson said that it was the reduction of the arrack shops which had led to the growth of this illicit trade. That, I think, is the opinion of many if not most of those who have studied the subject in Ceylon, and it is by the regulation of those shops that we hope to stop this most mischievous circumstances of trade which has arisen.
I am sorry to say that I cannot give away a Commission with a pound of tea, I am suppose as Mr. Chamberlain appeared to do so readily to Mr. Ferguson. I either a more cautious or a more obstinate man.
I have listened with great interest to the method of the statement of your case and the material of it, and without pledging myself in any way as to what course I may take (you must not be under the impression that I have given you any specific acceptation), I will promise to take into consideration all the matters that you have stated to me.
If at the end of that consideration I come to the conclusion that this Bill ought to be put into operation for trial and to watch its effect, I hope you will not consider that it is in any way derogatory to the views that you have been putting before me to-day. If it comes into operation it will come into operation in order that it shall be carefully watched and watched from the point of view of the need of the whole population of Ceylon, because, undoubtedly, the interests of that popu- lation depend upon a wise and moderate, but I hope a permanent, reduction in the drinking habits of the people. (Hear, hear.)
Sir HERBERT ROBERTS: Before we leave the room, Mr. Harcourt, I desire, on the part of the Deputation, to thank you very heartily for the way in which you have received us and the careful attention which you have paid to what has been said. We value very much, at all events, a possible sympathetic consideration of one or
We thank you. two points upon which we at all events lay very great value.
The Deputation then withdrew.
26014
No. 3.
THE GOVERNOR to THE SECRETARY OF STATE. (Received 19 August, 1912.) [Answered by No. 3.]
(Miscellaneous. No. 414.)
SIR,
Trincomalee, Ceylon, 29th July, 1912. I HAVE the honour to forward herewith, for your information, copy of a Memorial addressed to you by a Committee appointed at a public meeting held in Colombo on June 15 last. The object of this meeting was to protest against the recent legislation, and against the action of Government, with regard to the manufacture and distribution of arrack and toddy.
2. The meeting in question had been extensively advertised, and great efforts No member of the Legislative Council was had been made to render it a success. present, though the Senior Tamil Member, Mr. Kanagasabai, is stated to have sent a letter of sympathy.* The Bishop of Colombo held aloof, as also did most of his clergy; but the Warden and Sub-Warden of St. Thomas's College were present, as also was the Secretary of the Church Missionary Society, the Principal of Wesley College, one or two other prominent Wesleyan missionaries, and a few other clergymen.
• This has been authoritatively denied by Mr. Kanagasabai.