PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
TITLC.O. 882
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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
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meeting in Colombo with regard to opium, I had a Buddhist High Priest on my side who spoke out in Cingalese, interpreted, of course, against opium, but he diverged on toa long speech on intoxicating drinks, which seemed, to his mind, a much greater evil I had to stop him, because, as Chairman, I had to his countrymen than even opium.
to point out to him that we had a specific object in our public meeting, and that the other large question would be taken up afterwards, and it had been shown that the British Government were responsible for the opium shops, whereas we knew that arrack was made away back even into the great history of the past. But it is quite true that the kings had nothing to do with the intoxicating drinks, and as far as I know, the Portuguese Government, who administered a large part of the country of Ceylon for 300 years, and reduced the people to slaves almost, and treated them Sir, I need not very badly, had at least their hands, as regards intoxicating drink, much more clean, as far as I could learn, than the hands of the British Government. go into ancient history, because, to refer to the autobiography of one of the best men the British Government ever put in any Dependency, the late Major Stannard, he gave evidence before the House of Commons that he had travelled all over the country in 1849 and found the most deplorable evidence of the degradation which arrack had Then, Sir, we come to one of the best Governors worked among the Cingalese. among the very many good Governors who have been sent from England to administer our affairs up to this very date, men who want to do the best for the Colony put under their care, whatever errors they may make Mr. Gregory. He helped Mr. Gladstone to disestablish the Irish Church, and he was sent to Ceylon, and he was one of the best Administrators and the most popular man amongst all sections of the Colony. In a memorial sent to him by a predecessor of my friend here and signed by the representatives of all the people in the Island, the subject was brought under his notice, and he never stopped until he went into it, and it frightened him. He went to work and got the number of arrack shops reduced, I think, by one-third, and he got a map made out of the Island with all the arrack shops painted in red on it, and he put it up in the Council Chamber and asked that it should be kept there and made up from day to day when he retired. I am sorry to say that that map never Another thing that he appeared after he went, and it has never been seen since. did for us was this. after his work with Mr. Gladstone in connection with the We have been trying to get our affairs put disestablishment of the Irish Church.
I was the Secretary and we disestab- right with regard to ecclesiastical matters. lished the Church thirty years ago, one of the best experiences the Church has ever had, adding greatly to the prosperity of the churches in Ceylon.
The When the arrack shops were reduced there sprang up very gradually a system of illicit distribution and selling of arrack. The renters got all the profit. arrack came from them and the officers of the Government never interfered because they also got the revenue. The duty was paid and so nobody interfered. I myself, in the Press, have urged upon the Government that this would never do-that it must be interfered with. It is those illicit dealings which have gone on for many years Most of us which have forced upon their hands this question at this date. 1,300 toddy shops! is it not appalling? We cannot face having that number added to. thought the Government would add some perhaps, that 60 or 100 might be taken as an experiment, but to add 1,300 is a greater evil on the people of Ceylon than the opium shops which have been closed, and which, I am sure, has been a great boon to the people.
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I think that that matter of the toddy shops has not been weighed beforehand. Neither the Government nor the public have considered it. Before the first Com-
What do want?
you mission as to opium was appointed, Mr. Chamberlain gave me half-an-hour in his That was the first of private room and heard my story, and when it was done, said:
Granted, I will order it at once. A Commission, Sir.' four Commissions before we got to the bottom of the matter, and I think in the matter of this toddy we want a good Commission, both official and otherwise, for the proper investigation to be done, evidence to be called as to what should be done to meet the case of the people wanting toddy and the idea that it should not be dealt in at arrack shops.
I do think if there is anything of the kind done in India (I hear that there is something of the kind in India) in education we are five times more advanced than India, we have an industrious and an educated people, Cingalese with a sprinkling of Europeans, and I am quite sure that amongst them there are many gentlemen from whom the Government could get advice by means of a Board. I see they grant to a number of well-known Boards in the country power to give advice, but they have
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clearly ignored the natives as a whole. In the Cingalese there are the Village Councils, and you might do something more, and I do think that something of the nature of local option in this matter which touches the people so much, the Cingalese especially, would be very desirable. I do not think that it should be done on the model of Madras, because Madras is not a pattern to a Buddhist country as the most of Ceylon is, and, although they have educated a great many in Madras, I think there is more reason in Ceylon for local option than there is even in Southern India.
Sir HERBERT ROBERTS: That completes our case, Sir.
Mr. HARCOURT: Ladies and gentlemen, my time, as you know, is rather limited, and therefore you will not be surprised that I shall only occupy a short period now in replying to you, but indeed that is no disadvantage because the merit of the Depu- tation to day is not that I should state arguments and views to you, but that you should bring to me your experience or the knowledge which indeed you may have gained from others who have experience and opinions on this subject.
I may tell you that when I first saw the draft of this Bill before it was produced in Ceylon I considered it, of course, in my official capacity as Secretary of State, but I also considered it from the standpoint of a life-long temperance reformer, and there are some members of this Deputation who would see no reason to doubt that descrip- tion of me. (Hear, hear.) I am bound to say, subject to any matters of detail which may have arisen since, or which you may have brought to my notice, I looked upon it as a move in that direction, a move that I hoped would eventually work satisfactorily, and which I still hope may do so.
I will deal with a few of the points which have been raised by the Deputation. Several gentlemen have spoken of an increase of the liquor shops. Of course, I know they do not in the least wish to misrepresent the action of the Ceylon Government, but I think I should be correctly stating the situation if I said it was not an increase of liquor shops but a separation of toddy from arrack, and the necessity, therefore, to have toddy shops as apart from arrack shops. I will not go over all the argu- ments which have been put forward in Ceylon and elsewhere as to the desirability of keeping toddy away froin arrack and preventing the arrack sellers from discouraging the consumption of toddy in order to encourage the use of the stronger arrack.
Several Members of the Deputation have mentioned the system of Advisory Committees in India with the suggestion that there might be similar Committees or analogous Committees in Ceylon and that they might be consulted in those matters. (Hear, hear.) That is one of the suggestions which is well worthy of consideration— (hear, hear)-although you must not take me as assenting to it as in the form in which it is put forward to-day. It is, however, one of the matters I should carefully consider in the future administration. (Hear, hear.) I think you will also relieve me, and especially relieve the Government of Ceylon, from any suspicion that the excise reform there has been taken mainly or principally with a view to revenue. is, I am convinced, and I know, with a view to a greater control, and I hope a greater reduction, of this drink, but it would be true, of course, to say, or it might be said of any Government which attempted to control illicit sale, that they were doing that for the advantage of the revenue as much as for the advantage of the people. Revenue, no doubt, profits by the suppression of illicit sale where there is a duty on spirit, but the people, on the other hand profit, greatly by the reduction of illicit sale, because they have to pay more for their liquor and therefore consume less of it.
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Mr. Thompson admitted that there were gross evils and that illicit sales had been very common; in fact he mentioned that in many estates, or some estates, 70 per cent. of the workmen were absentee labourers on Monday morning, which was a remarkable illustration of the evil with which it is necessary to deal. Of course, he said quite rightly that he was not concerned with the interests of the arrack renter. but we must look, of course, at the action which will be suggested lest, however well intended, it may be to the advantage of the arrack renters or the illicit sellers. The Bill was carried through the Council unanimously, although we have had some explanation of why that was the case. I think it was suggested that many of the members did not understand the measure because they were members of the legal profession. That, of course, is never a suggestion which would be made in our country as a reason for the ignorance of the member who is legislating, and I should have thought on the whole by their training and experience they would have been well able to understand the provisions of the law as laid before them; but you have expressed satisfaction rightly enough with the promise that the rules and regulations under the Bill shall be discussed by the Legislative Council before being brought into effect.