PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
ICO. 882
6
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
56
them for their consideration. I felt very strongly on the subject upon which I was addressing you. I was personally convinced that to allow the present system to remain unreformed would be a disgrace to this Colony. I hope to be able to show you that something in the nature of a really earnest attempt was being made by the present Administration to grapple with a question of extraordinary difficulty; and I felt absolutely convinced, after five years' experience of the leading members of the public in Ceylon, that I had only to place before them in a proper and sufficiently lucid form those considerations which had convinced me, to find that they also would not only be convinced, but would have the honesty and generosity to subscribe to that serious opinion. Well, Sir, I am very much gratified indeed, on behalf of the Government
very I serve, and for which for the moment I am acting as spokesman, that the attempt and never for one moment have we under-estimated the serious nature of that attempt that the very serious attempt to begin the campaign which in the end will secure for this Government control of the importation, distribution, sale, and eventually the consumption of intoxicating liquors in this Colony has in this its initial stage commended itself to your approval. I sympathise with those Honour- able Members who urge that something in the nature of local option should, if possible, be considered, and I am perfectly certain that when the Select Committee which I hope presently to move be appointed comes to consider the details of the Bill, any suggestions that any Member may make any machinery that he may suggest or devise, which will to some extent be an approximation to what is loosely termed local option-recognising though we must the extreme difficulties of making it applicable to the whole of Ceylon--I feel sure that such suggestions will receive the most earnest My honourable friend consideration of Members, both Official and Unofficial.
Mr. Ramanathan said that he had not yet got sufficient information, and it was, I think, a mistaken impression that it was Your Excellency's or my intention to with- hold from him, as a Member of this Council, information which he had a right to expect, which betrayed him for a moment into a passing loss of self-command, which I feel I feel sure that on reflection he will as most deeply deplore as I myself most profoundly regretted the necessity which made it seem to be my duty to call him to order. sure that Mr. Ramanathan will accept from me the assurance that nothing but a sense of duty induced me to perform that most unpleasant duty, and that nothing but the respect which I have for His Excellency as the King's representative in this Colony, and nothing but the respect which I have for this Council, of which we are all proud to be Members, would have caused me to take action so profoundly distaste- ful to myself. The duty has been discharged, and the less any of us think or say about it the better. I feel sure that Mr. Ramanathan will agree with me that the incident may now be left to oblivion, and that it will never make any difference in But, Sir, I must confess that either our personal or official relations in the future.
my honourable friend took me somewhat by surprise this afternoon. He was abso- lutely within his rights, and perhaps I am to blame in not being prepared to answer But I think my honourable him on the spur of the moment, as I should have wished. friend, although his official relations with me have been only for a short period, and certainly all Honourable Members who have been associated with me all these years will agree with me that, when any information is required by them, I, as Colonial Member any Secretary, am only too delighted to place that information, if it is possible, at their
years when disposal. I cannot recollect any occasion during the last five has asked for information, even of the most private character, except such as has been entrusted to me for secret keeping information of the most private and confidential character, I should say-that he has not been immediately satisfied by my placing I was most gratified to receive this morning a personal letter the file in his hands. from Mr. Ramanathan informing me that he had made up his mind, after studying my speech of yesterday, to support the second reading. I had always during my own personal experience as Colonial Secretary, which after all extends to something like ten years, I had always been rather prepared in dealing with the second reading of an Ordinance to deal with questions of principle rather than with questions of detail; because, as you are aware, questions of detail are usually relegated to discussion in Select Committee, and therefore I may have shown some reluctance in replying to my honourable friend's question, which, if I remember rightly, was— To begin with, the reason why I How many distilleries are there going to be?" am not going to answer that question is that I am not at the present moment in a position to say, and nobody in the world at the present moment is in a position to say, how many distilleries will be required. I yesterday described to you what the pro- I described to you the experimental process which must posals of Government were.
46
57
Until we have ourselves precede the taking up of the first contract supply area. worked a distillery for a certain period, we shall not even be able to say definitely whether it will be possible to run a contract supply area. We have every reason to believe that it will, but the preliminary inquiries which must precede that are the first initial stages of the introduction of the contract supply system. When the experimental distillery has been in existence for a certain period, a particular area will be selected for a further experiment. The experiment with the contract supply system will be applied separately to that area, and within that area the renting system will cease. If that second experiment, as we anticipate, also proves success- ful, then it will be extended, and extended, and extended, until in the course of time with. But you will realise that away the present renting system is completely done the Bill which we are discussing to-day, though it makes the substitution of the contract supply system in place of the existing renting system a possibility, also permits the present renting system to be carried on, but gives us improved machinery for supervision; and it is contended that there is nothing in the principle of this Ordinance which necessitated, in my opinion, the placing before Honourable Mem- bers of such details as have been asked for before they were able to make up their minds as to the principle which has guided us. I have stated to you what the lines of the experiment will be, and I would remind you that you are taking no leap in the dark, for the reason that the results of each of these experiments will have to be you for the money, brought up before Honourable Members in Council when we ask without which it is quite impossible either to establish this Excise Department, or to extend or to build your distilleries, or to work them on the contract supply system, or to carry it on when you decide to carry it on; and it seems to me that the power of the purse that you have, and the fact that that must rule every single step in advance, should suffice for immediate safeguards in so far as the operation of the principles to which we are asking you to pin your faith are concerned. In the same way. I cannot say what the eventual personnel of the Excise Department will be, but had my honourable friend approached me before we met to-day, I should have been very happy to place in his hands a paper containing the joint recommendations in of Messrs. Horsburgh and Thurley as to the staff they consider will be necessary the immediate future. But I would again remind Honourable Members that no effect can be given to them until money has been voted by this Council approving the salaries fixed for the various posts; and though my honourable friend drew some conclusion, which I was not able to grasp, from the fact that the distinguished civil servant who at the present moment is acting as Governor of Madras, and who ordinarily is head of the Abkari Department, draws a salary of Rs. 3,740 per mensem, that, therefore, it would be impossible to get some officer in Ceylon to fill a similar post, I should like to put to you the very hard case of myself. I believe that the salaries paid in India are absolutely beyond the dreams of avarice. I, as Colonial Secretary of Ceylon, draw a paltry Rs. 2,500 a month, which compares, I believe, rather unfavourably with that of a First Class Civil Servant in India from one end of India to another; and yet, Sir, so conceited am I, that I believe that probably in my own way I do my work just as well as if you paid me Rs. 3,500; and I am inclined to think that with the officers of the Civil Service, when the occasion comes, and the difficult subject is put before them. it would not be the number of rupees a month which will be considered, but the difficulties of the task, and the best way of tackling it; and I have every confidence that Mr. Horsburgh, who has now gained a very deep knowledge of this work, will tackle it as well as any officer in the Civil Service.
The Honourable the CEYLONESE MEMBER: I exempted you from my remarks. The Honourable the COLONIAL SECRETARY: I quite understand that; but I' trust that in our Civil Service we can get officers to perform the necessary duties on such salaries as this Colony has been accustomed to grant. I fully agree with Mr. Rama- nathan that it will probably be necessary to give very adequate salaries, especially to subordinate officers. You will have to give those officers positions which they will only part with with very great regret in order to nail them to honesty by interest as well as by principle. Mr. Ramanathan further spoke as to the departure of Mr. Thurley. There is one phrase which he used, and used repeatedly, and that was that Mr. Thurley was being sent away. I should prefer to say that Mr. Thurley's depu- tation being at an end, the Government of Ceylon is very reluctantly parting with him. I yesterday paid a very high tribute to Mr. Thurley, as also did Mr. Rama- nathan half an hour ago. I need not repeat it, but we have now reached a stage of development when we do not require the pilot who was to mark out our course for