PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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TICO. 882
9 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
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24 June 1909 1
MAURITIUS ROTAL COMMISSION, 1909 ·
Sir CAVENDISH BOYLE, KCMG
1178 Do you think that those, as they stand, are the best possible? I mean with small alterations, aking generally -1 think so, speaking generally I think you reach the small contributor by that means
a better way and without his feeling it
1174 Would you suggest any new duties or in- reased duties, or the abolition of any of those which xist The Customs tariff was recently revised after It was witting of a committee for over two years. vised during siy recent absence from the Colony. 1 tid not me the details of the revision before it was There are certain articles which I have accepted noticed in looking through the revision, which would, I think, bear an increase.
1175 Which you think would still refer to some expensive articles, such as wines of the better
· Las
I do not think they have been taxed sufficiently relation to other goods.
1176 Do you mean wines and spirite ?--No, spirite re highly taxed.
1177 Only wines - Yes, sparkling wines especially. 1178. Anything else I could not say so at this I think there are one or two small items
moment
which might bear a slight increase.
1179. 1 understand you do not say articles of luxury generally, but you specify definitely wines?—No, I define those articles to which I refer by calling them articles of luxury I think the 12 per cent. ad valorem is a sufficient tax, with our present needs, of
course
1180 That is all you would say with reference to revenue-1 am of opinion, and always have been of panion, that, given an absence from climatic disturb. ance, and freedom from such afflictions as the Colony has suffered from lately, in the form of epizootic and epidemic malady and disease, that the revenue which would be, in those conditions, collectable, could be raised from the present sources in an easier and more efficient manner than if any drastic change were made.
1181. Have you thought, in your own mind, whether such a form of revenue as income tax would be desir. able here -Carefully, lengthily, and anxiously.
1182. What do you say ?-I consider that it would very difficult to collect, expensive, and with results which would not be in proportion to the expenditure and to the trouble and annoyance that it would cause. Further than that I consider that the man with a fixed income would be a sufferer at the expense of the man who has not got a fixed income, and who is not so easily accessible to the collector.
1183. In fact, that whilst the man with the known income would be easy to tax, the man with a variable income would be very difficult to get at P-Quite so.
1184. Is not it a fact that there are certain institu. tutions here, such as the banks, the docks, and a number of estates, which are in the form of companies, and sometimes privately owned, which really contribute Is not that the case P- very little indeed to revenue. Taking those institutions as a whole to which you have alluded. I should say that probably their actual earnings as every individual are not taxed, but, inasmuch Conducting a business here, be he a banker, be he a planter or a dock owner or worker, contributes in. directly to the revenue, I am not aware that those institutions escape to any undue degree the duty of contributing to the revenue necessary for the admini- stration of this Colony,
1185. How, for instance, does the bank contribute to the revenue ? I can understand how it contributes to the prosperity of the place by being an enormous convenience, but how does it contribute actually to the revenue? The bank employs a certain number of individuals in its service, all of whom are paid from the funds of the bank, and from those payments made from the funds of the bank revenue is collected in the shape of the taxation which I have mentioned Of course that, is a very small amount as compared probably with a successful year's working of the bank. I understand your question to be an outcome of the previous question with regard to the question of income
lax:
1188. Quite P-I have no doubt that you, could ruise an appreciable amount of additional revenue by
Continued
taxing those institutions, but, in order to do that, you must tax all others situated in the same or a similar way, all enjoyers of income in fact
1187 Yes, I understand that, but these banks, 1 imagine, have shareholders P-You.
1188. In respect of the shareholder who resides abroad; who has never seen Mauritius, whose dividen is are paid to him, the Colony of Mauritius gets nothing? -Presumably not.
1189. Would not it, in your opinion, be fair that they should contribute something if they make a good dividend out of an institution which prospers because of this Colony and under the agis of this Colony? Would not it be fair that they should make some con- tribution to the revenue of the place?--Before 1 answer that may I be permitted to say that I omitted one form of indirect contribution which those banks make. They pay 1d. on each cheque.
1190. Surely the people pay it?-It is true that their client pays it, but he pays it on his account with the bank, and, if he did not pay it. I have no doubt that the bank would have so much more in their coffers with which to manipulate. Of course it is At the same time stretching the point considerably. there is no doubt that it is paid.
1191. Yes, but I do not think that that has any- thing to do with the earnings of the bank, has it P-No. I mean that it is part I do not think it has directly.
of the result of the establishment of the institution.
1192. Do not you think that income tax, with a minimum, say, that incomes of Rs. 1,000 and under should be exempt, would be a fair source of revenue, supposing that revenue were required?-Not quite. You would hit the clerk, the Government employé, the man struggling for his existence, with we will say Rs. 1,200 to Rs. 1,500 per annum, which, after all, is
He would he hit very hard. not a very great income.
1193. But then you could have a graduated form That would be of income tax-By all necessary. I think.
means
1194. That would be necessary undoubtedly, but with a graduated form of income tax you could make it so that the least possible burden were placed on the struggling people, and still the Colony would get some contribution from those who, so far as we can see at The absentee present, do not make any contribution. landlord and the absentee shareholder may not make any contribution, either direct or indirect, to the Colony out of which they make their money ?-I think he makes an indirect contribution to the revenue of the Colony, inasmuch as he is the employer of labour, and he is the importer of all kinds of goods for the working of his industry.
1195. These absentee landlords or shareholders P-- I will not say the shareholder of the bank.
1196. I am speaking of the shareholder in a nugar company just the same as if there are two owners or if there are 200?-He is a member of the corporation. which contributes to the well-being of the Colony. If he gains a profit he does not contribute out of that profit. I admit.
1197. That is all that I mean ?-I admit that. 1198. The banks and the docks are in a different category to the sugar estates ?-Certainly.
1199. On those two classes can you suggest any means by which they could be made to contribute fairly towards the revenue of the Colony ?—The bankers, I think, pay a licence already. You would largely increase that licence?
1200. Yes I am not sure about the banks.
1201. The banka do pay a licence You could largely increase that licence. I think, from what I can recollect, the licence is not at all in proportion to the licence which is paid by a struggling cabinet- maker. Therefore I think you could largely increase the bank licence.
1202. You think that would be fair, and you think that would be preferable P-I think it would be more easily carried out. The sole reason for my---I will not say antipathy-but hesitation with regard to income tax is that which I have already given, the difficulty of collection.
24 June 1909
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
Sir CAVENDISH BOYLE, .Ç.M.O.
1203. la reference to the docks, you would do the same in that case-I would, certainly.
1204. May I ask you, as you have thought about this question of income tax, you have, no doubt, con- sidered that, when it came to an attempt to collect the income tax from natives who know no European language, that it might be extremely difficult to get them to fill up any kind of form such as is a necessity in the case of collecting income tax -With most of them
1205. That would be a considerable objection. would it-Yee. I have considered that point amongst others. I have put all those objections together in the general difficulty of collection
1206. Have you thought of a possibility, or other- wise, of a land or house tax, or both ?—I have thought about a house tax primarily, and incidentally about a land tax. As regards the house tax, there is always this difficulty, how are you to distinguish between the man who should pay and the man who should not pay ? Could you reasonably tax one of the occupants, and how are you to differentiate between him and the other occupants? You must tax them on the value of the house, of course, How are you to estimate the value of the hute occupied by many Indians?
1207. (Mr. Woodcock.) Is there any difficulty about a minimum and an exemption there --No, you would have to exempt. I should say, 260 out of 380 native inhabitants; there is no doubt about that.
1208. (Chairman) Even so we are told that on a rough estimate something like Rs. 300,000, or more, might be anticipated from a tax of R. 1 an acre on cultivable land and a house tax similar to that which is at present collected without any difficulty as an assessment by the various municipalities P-1 cannot say that it is collected without any difficulty, because I consider, and I have always heard, that there is very great difficulty in collecting the assessment in Port Louis. It is collected, but the municipality frequently complain and ask for assistance in various ways in consequence of the difficulty of collecting the several
assessmente.
1209. You mean that it is always in arrears?—It is frequently in arrear, I believe.
1210. I was speaking mther of the machinery. Supposing it was imposed, there would be no particular difficulty about levying it ?—No, I think not-not insuperable difficulties.
1211. Still, do you see any reason why such a tax should not be imposed if the Colony is in want of funds P-I do not see any insuperable reason why such a tax should not be imposed. I ace nothing against it, beyond that objection, which I have already mentioned, that I think direct taxation on a community such as this is always to be avoided if possible. If necessity renders it imperative that we should thus increase revenue, that is a way in which we might attain the end in view.
1212. Would you prefer a house tax to an income tax P-Certainly. I think it would much more easily
collected.
1213. Apparently nobody pays any land tax in this Colony. Is it not very remarkable P-Not directly. I have never heard of any being paid.
1214. Is not that very unusual I should think so, certainly.
1218. Is there the smallest hardship in calling upon landowners to pay, say, a rupee an acre ?-On culti vated land?
1216. Tea, cultivable land ?-I think the cultivator regards his contribution, and his duty, towards the revenue as having been discharged when he pays the 30c. per kilo. on his manufactured sugar.
1217. Can you tell us what that is ad valorem ?—I suppose the realised average on 30 kilos. of manufactured sugar-I am speaking very generally—would be Rs. 7. That is 30c. in Rs. 7.
1218. That is one-twentieth-5 per cent. -Not quite. It is thought to be somewhat less than 5 per cent.
1219. 30c. on the export duty. Does he pay that, or does the man who buys his sugar pay it That is
[Continued
a question which 1 hope you will excuse attempting to answer.
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me from
1220. You think that he feels he has discharged his duty to the Colony by paying that export duty, and that that relieves him from any obligation to pay land rent. I would only say to that: Is it not quite usual. almost universal, to find not only that the payment of the land rent but the payment of the export duty as well is made in other places-I mean taking your neigh- bours. Take Ceylon and the Straits Settlements and the other places which produce anything at all. not all the landholders pay a land rent and also pay an export duty ?—I cannot speak from personal experience of my neighbours. I can only speak of the West, and there is no doubt there that in certain of the sugar. growing Colonies in the West both are paid.
Do
1221. Have you ever heard any objection raised to it -Oh, yes. Wherever I have bean, the planter pro. ducing sugar and paying an export duty always considers that he has fulfilled his duty to the revenue -to the administration.
1222. Have you ever heard him raise an objection rather to the export duty than to the land rent ?--No, I have not heard that. I have heard him raise con. siderable objections to the export duty, per se, and I have heard him claim that he is one of the largest con- tributors to the expenses of Government.
1223. You have put my point. Have you ever heard him raise any objection to the payment of land rent? Never, but then I have only had experience in very few places where there has been a land rent, and here, as you know, there is no land rent; there is an objection to it.
1224. Have you any idea what the large estates, producing many thousands of tons of sugar annually in Mauritius, actually contribute directly to the Revenue? That would be a very difficult question to answer specifically. I can only say that they con- tribute indirectly in the manner which I have already mentioned.
1225. Would it surprise you if such an estate as I speak of only contributed something between Rs. 250 and Rs. 300 per annum direct taxation ?-Very much.
1226. Would you think that was too little?— Certainly.
1227. Do you happen to know an estate called Mon Désert P-I do.
1228. It was the property of a very wealthy man, was it not P-I am not aware that it has been the pro perty of a very wealthy man since I have been here; I believe it is now in the hands of a Company.
1229. It once belonged to M. Thiery, did it not?—
I fancy so, but that is some time ago.
1290. What would you think was the direct taxation on an estate of that kind P---If you ask me as to direct taxation, I should say it is nil. Of course I am eliminat ing what I have already said.
1231. Quite so. Have you ever thought that the stamp duties in Mauritius might fairly be raised, or do you think they are already sufficient P-I fancy they were raised quite recently.
1232. In a few casos P-Yes, in a few cases. I fancy that the question was fully considered in the Council of Government-the whole question. I was not present at the debates. I wish I had been. May I add to my answer to that, that I think there are instances where they could be satisfactorily and beneficially raised.
1233. The stamp duties !—Yes, the stamp duties generally.
1234. Can you say what I would instance the succession duty.
1235. That is the probate duty. I was just going to ask you about that. That is the last question with reference to revenue I was proposing to put to you. that was to ask you whether you thought that probate duties, as at present paid, were sufficient?—No, I
do not.
1236. Can you tell us to what degree you would raise them?-That I have not considered, and I should like to take time to consider it.
1297. Perhaps you would let us have that informa tion-probate and succession?--I understand you to include the whole. Of course probate was mentioned
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