HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
I am just bringing out this point. I understand that the motion will be carried. All I am saying is that when implementing contracting out policy, we should give more consideration to the pay of the lower class. If there can be better coordination within the policy to take care of the lower class, meaning cleaners here, all the better. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Ambrose Cheung Wing-sum (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, I would speak on the legal aspect. A colleague mentioned Marxism. It is an economy led, society led theory. Marxism counters capitalism with a guided economy. Marxism makes class conflict and struggle a means to proletarians and socialism, and in the end communism.
The colleague did not mention one point, though. In Marxism, the law is not respected and it is only a secondary product. The rule of law is abandoned in socialist proletarians and communism. However, as we can see in socialism, the status of law is gradually climbing. If we put this into the context of Mr. Ir's motion, the problem becomes clear. The last part of the motion mentions various proposals for review and implementation. I am more inclined to a comprehensive review of implementation because the proposals are on throwing in more intensive manpower and resources as a solution to the problem. If we do not have laws to back these up, we are just tigers without their canines. No matter how well we drill the staff of a company and how thoroughly we teach them to enforce the law, there will not be any deterrent effect if in the end, the penalty of dismissal does not exist.
Therefore, in agreeing to a review as suggested in the motion debate. I want to add one point. I hope the Department will take into account the experience in the enforcement of the public health laws in the last two years. First, we need to simplify. Complicated administrative measures steal away efficiency in enforcement. Second, we need heavier penalties for an educational effect. The idea is basically to attain an absolute deterrent effect. Thirdly, on whether too much resources have been put in. If we are asked to decide on increasing manpower and delegating prosecution power before conducting a review and then we find out that we do not have laws for support, we are just tigers without canines. In no case will there be any effect at all.
Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I support the content of the original motion, but I would like to add that we need to simplify legal procedures and increase penalties so as to attain our purpose.
MR. LEE KWOK-KEUNG (in Cantonese):—I don't know much about socialism, so I do not intend to quote it. I support contracting out part of our cleaning work and setting a ceiling, say one third of street cleaning and washing work. In fact, we can see that some cleaning companies or their staff are not functioning well. As the public sector, we are not faced with competition or comparison. Under the circumstances, drawing in partial contracting out services has its merits. Competition stimulates staff. I understand that some
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