# HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
CHAIRMAN (in English): Could I suggest that the last word on this lavatorial subject be given to the VCUC who has some expert advice to offer?
VICE-CHAIRMAN (in English): Mr. Chairman, I think I have to make some supplementaries. So perhaps you ask the Chairman of the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee to announce publicly. The solution is easy during the performance. You simply get into the queue and when someone comes out you slip in and you don't use any money.
MR. LO KING-MAN (in Cantonese): That is equally an interesting question. I do not have on hand evidence showing that is a case. As far as I know, we do have a certain number of toilet facilities to be built in proportion to the seats available in a cultural venue. We have, for instance, data on the average use of the toilets. But this might not cover the peak hours. For instance, in the City Hall, there are 1,400 seats and we need to add 50% contingency and so on. Actually, these toilet facilities are only urgently needed in 10 minutes during the performance every day. Construction of more toilets still cannot solve the problem if all audience queue up at the same time.
CHAIRMAN (in English): The Secretary is getting very agitated. He reminds me that under Standing Orders questions and supplementaries should not be used as an excuse for a debate. Is it a genuine supplementary? In Standing Order 13(14), 'a question must not be made the pretext for a debate.' So, let's move on to the next question.
MR. WALTER M. SULKE (in English): A point of Order, you have the advantage of us because we haven't got our normal copies of the Standing Order.
CHAIRMAN (in English): You can take it from me, I have just read from the Standing Order. Are you having a burning need to ask the supplementary, Joseph?
MR. JOSEPH Y. S. CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, it is a burning need. This concerns the second part of the question. Dr. LEUNG in his reply says the reason why there is uncleanliness in some of our toilets is because of the bad habits of a minority of vandals and less civic-minded users. I can confirm that is a case. The seats in the toilets are so dirty that people dare not touch them. The question is, Mr. Chairman, what can be done to keep the toilets clean?
DR. RONALD D. B. LEUNG (in Cantonese): The answer is two words - Health Education.
7.
MR. WALTER M. SULKE asked the following question (in English): Could I please be told what progress is being made in amending legislation to enable the Council to actually physically close restaurants who are consistently transgressing food hygiene laws, or who are consistently operating without a licence?
MR. L. H. KWAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE FOOD HYGIENE SELECT COMMITTEE (in Cantonese): The question calls for a progress report on the introduction of amending legislation to enable the Council to physically close down premises which should be licensed but which persist in operating without a licence.
Section 128 of the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, Chapter 132, empowers a magistrate, upon application made by the department, to make an order closing unlicensed premises either wholly or partly, but this section has no provision enabling the department to carry out the closure order by physical closure of the premises.
In May 1986, the Food Hygiene Select Committee approved the department's recommendation to seek legislative amendment for this section to enable enforcement staff to physically close down persistent unlicensed food premises. Since then, the department has been reviewing the extent of the power that should be sought in the legislation and operational procedures needed for this law enforcement work. The Police have expressed support for the proposal and will assist staff of the department to execute the physical closure order on a need basis when trouble is encountered or where there is good reason to believe that it will be encountered.
In November 1986, formal application to seek drafting approval to amend Section 128 of the Public Health & Municipal Services Ordinance, Chapter 132, was made to the Secretary for Municipal Services who has consented to the proposal and formal drafting proposals on this issue are now being circulated to the Police, Attorney General Chambers, and Regional Services Department for comment as a prerequisite to the proposed legislative amendment exercise.
MR. WALTER M. SULKE (in English): Mr. Chairman, I am glad to know that this matter now, after two years of pushing, is finally being progressed. I am sure my friend will agree that this matter is very urgent. I really do. Will he and his Committee please do everything possible to get this matter expedited as the present situation is completely unsatisfactory.
MR. L. H. KWAN (in English): Yes, I think the comment from Mr. WALTER SULKE has been well noted. In fact, we have discussed this in the last meeting and indeed we will discuss this matter again in the forthcoming meeting in May.
MR. PETER C. K. CHAN (in English): Mr. Chairman, I think with the business of the Legislative Council, probably or the Executive Council, may I suggest that this matter be brought to this Open Meeting once every six months. I hope it would never come up because if we can legislate before the six months' time. Otherwise, somebody will know that it is not done in time. You always come up in the limelight. This is urgent unless you have something like that. Somebody will sit on it and shelve it for some time.
CHAIRMAN (in English): Is this a supplementary?
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