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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Hawkers in their daily operation are often extorted of money by triad elements who also protect and participate in illegal hawking. Moreover, the triad elements often make trouble and provoke fights to disrupt our hawker management work and pervert the course of justice. We should not, therefore, tolerate the flagrant triad elements for such high-sounding abstract theories as 'individual freedom' and 'excessive power' etc.
With these words, I support the motion.
MR. MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, in the discussion of the Discussion Document, undoubtedly a number of important recommendations are made and they are different in spirit to what we have by way of judicial system today, so on the one hand we do not want to be seen to be just talking about the matter, but on the other hand we wish to reinforce the principle of the law and we must not allow any changes, albeit slight, to the spirit of that. I have spoken on other public occasions concerning the Discussion Document so I wish only to speak on one particular point today. In the Discussion Document, 6.64, and especially 6.63–6.67 a very new idea is brought forward, that is on the recommendation of the set up of task forces. This certainly is something that is worth pursuing by the Government because at present we should have the determination and the means to tackle triads. We do have the determination but we have not got enough options concerning the means to do it. In the coming years I believe the Government should look more carefully on the American example. The idea of using task forces is no longer something that we can handle within the present framework. It needs help from the commercial fields by way of accountancy and other professional knowledge, I hope that we will have this sort of input in the future task forces, we may have and we hope that we will handle the situation as effectively as we tackle corruption and for the same amount of determination and resources allocated to it. Secondly, I wish to make one point. I agree that if we want members of the public to come forward to report on triads, then it may be rather difficult to distinguish on the part of the members of the public whether the policemen they are confronting are good policemen or bad ones. As Mrs. Tu has just said it is quite probable that the Policemen they go to are on the side of the triads. So in that connection I wish to recommend that we have a telephone hotline similar to the one we use to report on corrupt activities and drug trafficking and in that case, people will not be unduly victimized. This would be of great help to the Urban Council in the area of hawkers activities where there is triad infiltration. Once we have a telephone hotline it would be possible for the Government to concentrate or to collate its intelligence much more easily and make the right deployment of resources. With the introduction of task forces, it is hoped that triads would be effectively curbed. I support the motion.
MRS. CHOW CHEUNG WAI-PING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, the triad problem is very far-reaching and the Urban Council is all the same affected.
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The Discussion Document is the Government's statement of stand on the triad problems. It is welcomed because it reflects the Government's concern and positive attitude towards the problem. However, judging from the Document, it seems that the Government is at its wits' end about the ringleaders as the options proposed are apparently inadequate in dealing with them. To a certain extent, the proposals may serve to contain and differentiate the middle-level triad members. Relatively speaking, the proposals are effective as regards the marginal members, and may help arouse the parents' attention to the supervision of their children. Based on these two functions, I support the Document in principle.
Much has been discussed in recent months by people of various circles about the proposals of the Document. I would like to comment on two areas which have proved most controversial. Firstly, the proposal in paragraph 5.34 of having legislation to prohibit those who have been convicted of triad membership from entering vice or gambling establishments etc. for at least two years after they have served their sentences. Many think this is additional, or double, punishment and deprivation of personal freedom, and that to prohibit the discharged offender from entering certain public establishments for a certain period is like asking them to become 'saints'. On this, I have the following views: (1) I do not think this is double, or additional, punishment. It is part of the punishment to impose certain restrictions on a person who has been convicted and served his sentence. This is not deprivation of personal freedom but a price for an offence. Mandatory supervision is desirable provided the spirit of the rule by law is not violated. Furthermore, the price for an offence in Hong Kong is relatively low and cannot be compared with the damage suffered by the victim. The mandatory imposition of prohibition is in no way unfair and has positive value in that the 'rehabilitation period' in question can help discharged offenders turn a new leaf, particularly those who wish to dissociate themselves from the triads. (2) Prohibition from gambling establishments and snooker saloons etc. is not too harsh a punishment. With the provision of places such as football fields and skating rinks where discharged offenders can spend their leisure time, their lives can be just as colourful. So why allow them the chance to go to places where they will easily fall back on their old ways? It is true there will be many technical problems in the implementation of the proposals, but they are of great importance to those former triad members who wish to start a new life, if, in the supervision period, they really start to change their way of life.
Secondly, when it comes to the enforcement of law by the police force, an abusive exercise of power is worried. In fact, there is always the possibility of anyone of power abusing his authority. So, how the police exercise their powers should be carefully monitored. Though there is not a system of ombudsmen here, there are ways and channels for making representations. In this respect, the mass media have already been playing an important role. For instance, whether the teachers are imposing appropriate punishment on the pupils is being closely watched. Should such a spirit of supervision be applied to the