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of the public are being sought. I think this is not only insufficient, but rather it would mislead the general public to misunderstand the Urban Council. It would also cause doubt as to whether such matters have been given serious thought. At present, the N.T.S.D. is a department under the U.S.D. Its head of department is the Director of N.T. Services. The U.S.D. functions under the direction of the Urban Council. Although the jurisdiction of the Urban Council does not extend to the N.T. because N.T.S.D. is under the U.S.D., so I don't think there would be any great difference in operation. So whether services should be co-ordinated by one council, two councils or more than two councils, this is not just a matter of expansion of power, but rather a matter of administrative convenience. We should think of the benefits to the general public instead of becoming a nuisance to them. Under the present development circumstances of Hong Kong, we see that our residents are increasing. We have plans for the development of new towns leading to urbanization of the new towns. There is now less and less distance between the N.T. new towns and the urban areas. Of the 1.4 million residents living in the N.T., I think at most 400,000 of them could be said to be indigenous N.T. residents. The developments of Tsuen Wan and Sha Tin are all urban developments and even Yuen Long and Mong Kok are developing at the same time. They are also urbanized. In the field of refuse collection, management of cultural and recreational activities, etc., we did not differentiate between urban and rural areas. As to the fact that we should have N.T. residents administering N.T. and that we should respect the tradition of N.T. residents, these are necessities. But I think when we develop the N.T., we should develop it along the same line as urban areas, i.e., having one organization to co-ordinate everything. We should have one policy instead of two sets of policies and if we implement a policy in different districts, we should make sure that there is sufficient flexibility between the various districts in the N.T. as it might be very easy to obtain a certain type of licence in the N.T. whereas that would be more difficult in the urban area. This means that there would be more than one type of restaurant or bearing in the N.T. Take the hawkers for instance, if the boundary between N.T. and the urban area were to be at Boundary Street or the Boundary Street bus terminus, and that south of that particular boundary will be the jurisdiction of the Urban Council with the absolute ban of hawkers, and that North of that particular boundary, there would be greater leniency in the implication of the policy. When the G.D. Teams execute their duties, all the hawkers will move to the North and if the situation reverse, all the hawkers will move to the South. This will make life very difficult for the G.D. Teams. This is just an example to illustrate the sort of conflict which might arise if we have separation of power between the N.T. and the urban area. This could also lead to misunderstanding among members of the public. If the residents feel that there is a difference between the N.T. and the urban area, then it would be very difficult for them to adapt to the situation. As the Chief Secretary has pointed out, setting up the regional council is to ensure that we can monitor and control N.T. services. We have to spend a lot of manpower, resources, and staff to set up another organization. Actually, what we need to know is, to expand the membership of the present Council and perhaps new membership could also
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include appointed and elected membership from the N.T. Members of the Heung Yee Kuk could also be appointed to the Council. Under the select committees of the Urban Council, we can also have special committees set up to look into N.T. affairs. So the Urban Council would have its original members as well as the N.T. members making up their minds about policies concerning the entire territory. In that case, N.T. residents could have a uniform policy and this avoids wastage of time. Moreover, if we see any conflict in policies, we can flexibly amend and adopt them to ensure that there is no duplication and delay. When we took all district administrations, we see that the 18 district boards are already playing their respective roles and they can take care of affairs within their particular district, and the district board could be fully consulted. When promoting urban services affairs, we should have one council to co-ordinate everything. If we have two councils, then there could be a separation of powers and a feeling of separation between the two. If there are distinctions between N.T. people and urban people, then there will be difficulty in developing a coherent policy for Hong Kong as a whole. The major difference in opinion will bring Hong Kong to become fragmented. Then it will be very difficult to administer Hong Kong as one territory. Because of these reasons, I support the motion and hope other Members would support it. Thank you.
we
(Dr. Philip C. K. Kwok left at this point—4:45 p.m.)
MR. JOSEPH Y. S. CHAN (in English): Mr. Chairman, with regard to Sir Philip's proposal for the development of Local Administration that another ‘regional' council should be established to cover the areas not under the aegis of the Urban Council.
I think it is really not necessary for the government to set up a 'regional' council to attend to the municipal affairs in the New Territories, as they are already being taken care of by the New Territories Services Department under the supervision of the Urban Services Department, although these affairs are at present not within the jurisdiction of the Urban Council.
The New Territories nowadays are developing abreast with the urban areas with similar custom and service needs as most of the population are from the urban areas. One policy-making body, what might be called the 'Greater Hong Kong Council' can surely provide better services for the whole territory of Hong Kong. To show respect for the Heung Yee Kuk, some of its members together with some members appointed and elected from the New Territories population will surely provide them with requisite services, not affecting the rural customs and traditions.
The Urban Council has a history and experience of a hundred years and has won the approval of the Chief Secretary. It is very natural that the Urban Council can be reorganized to be one 'Greater Hong Kong Council' instead of setting up a new regional council in New Territories without any municipal experience. Moreover, the New Territories, Kowloon, and Hong Kong Island
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