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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. SULKE (in English):--Mr. Chairman, I would like to move an amendment to the motion. I would like to insert the word 'independent' after the word 'special' so that it then reads: to consider setting up a special independent working party.
DR. HUANG (in English): --Mr. Chairman, I second the amendment.
MRS. FONG (in English):--I think in this respect, I would like to react to the addition of the word 'independent' because without some clarification as to what that word means, it is very difficult for us to decide as to what to vote on, so I beg to have some clarification.
MR. SULKE (in English):--Independent means outside of the Council and outside of the Department.
DR. CHAM (in English):- Mr. Chairman, I am afraid I do not agree to the amendment because it is against the spirit of the motion which is to request the select committee to consider setting up a special working party of which the composition as it stands, is not defined which means that this falls outside the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee's responsibility as far as the composition of the working party is concerned.
MR. YOUNG (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I regret that I did not come back in time to propose an amendment to the first motion that would have combined two, effectively. However, I would like to amend Mr. SULKE's motion.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-I am sorry, can you speak on the amendment which has been moved by Mr. SULKE and which has already been seconded. We will speak on that first and vote on it.
MR. Lo (in English):-Mr. Chairman, Mr. SULKE's motion to amend Mr. SHUM's motion would, in practice, virtually make this second motion the same as the first one that we have just voted out. (laughter) Therefore I am against this second amendment.
MR. JOSEPH CHAN (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, thank you for giving me this opportunity. I do not agree with Mr. SULKE'S amendment in adding the word 'independent' to the motion. As I believe in the Standing Committee and the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee, we can discuss on the terms of reference and Membership of that special working party. Apart from staff from the U.S.D. and Members of the Urban Council, I believe we can always co-opt Members to sit in that special working party, so I believe that working party could be further discussed in the Standing Committee and the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee. I fully support what Mr. SHUM proposed.
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MR. KWAN (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I am against this amended motion. I think the amended motion would read like this: that the Council request the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee to consider setting up a special independent working party to review hawker and related policies together with the department. I think it will be quite difficult to carry out the job with the special independent working party to review the matter together with the department. (I think the department means the Urban Services Department). I will be quite in a sense, I will say, nonsense, by saying that independent working together with the department which cannot carry out in any way.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I am going to vote against Mr. SULKE'S amendment because I also think it is going back to the original motion. I think we should leave the motion as it is but if after the working party has made its enquiry, we are not satisfied, then at some future date, I would support Mr. SULKE's motion for independent enquiry.
MRS. FONG (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I would like to seek clarification again because Mr. SHUM has a motion. Can it be voted upon first before an amendment?
CHAIRMAN (in English):-Can I clarify that, Mrs. FONG, we are voting on the amendment which has been proposed by Mr. Walter SULKE and if it is defeated, we shall carry on the debate and vote on the original motion which have been moved by Mr. SHUM.
MR. FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, at this point, I would like to let you have my comments. I do not agree to have an independent enquiry. I do not agree to the insertion of the word 'independent'. The first reason is as Mr. KWAN has mentioned, this addition may be a conflict with the terms of reference; and secondly, not adding the word 'independent' committee, does not mean that we cannot use a scientific enquiry carried out by people not related to the Urban Council and the Urban Services Department. So although this special committee is under the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee, there is still people who are not directly related to our work commissioned to carry out this work. So if we have the word 'independent' on, we will have our hands tied. With these words, we can all bear in mind that we will consider Mr. SULKE'S amendment, to consult people from outside.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-It seems that most members are against Mr. SULKE'S amendment. I might at this stage draw members' attention to Standing Order No. 22, Preceding Resolutions passed or lost No motion to rescind any resolution passed, and no motion or amendment to the same effect as one which has been lost, or proposed but not seconded, and no motion to the same effect as one which has been passed, shall be proposed within six months of the meeting
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