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would not have too many new markets in the next 2 years, so that does not stand a very good chance.
CHAIRMAN (in English):—Mr. Augustine CHUNG, Mr. BERNACCHI, Mr. Howard YOUNG, in that order.
MR. AUGUSTINE S. K. CHUNG (in English):-Mr. Chairman, concerning the second part of the answer that one point is about the availability of funds to build new markets. In this respect may I ask the Council to consider the direct contribution from the hawkers themselves which has been suggested by me in the Annual Speech. Second point here is even if we take into account the 25 new projects in the next 4 to 5 years, at that rate we are going to accommodate 1,300 hawkers in 3 new markets then we can only accommodate slightly over 10,000 hawkers in 25 new markets in the coming 4 to 5 years. Judging from the number of hawkers we now have, legal and illegal, it is absolutely impossible for these projects to be able to accommodate all the hawkers altogether. Probably, we can only accommodate about 4 to 1/5 of them, so in that case I think we have to face the reality by also finding some other way of controlling these hawkers other than having the fanciest hope of resiting them all in markets.
MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, for the first question of availability of funds, I believe for the time being the Council has adequate funds for that purpose. As pointed out, some of the market buildings are multi-purpose and they are constructed in conjunction with some other Government departments and, therefore, some of them may be delayed in their completion. But after the problem has been solved, I hope that we would be able to cooperate more with the relevant and related Government departments so that these markets could be completed earlier. The second question, Mr. CHUNG's assumption is that in the next 4 or 5 years, only 10,000 hawkers may be resited and of course that is calculated according to our present progress, but the question is that we hope with the enforcement of the hawker control regulations, we will be able to cut down the number of hawkers because if the number of hawkers is not going to increase, we can resite all of these into the markets, otherwise, we would not be able to solve the problem of hawkers.
MR. B. A. BERNACCHI (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I am a little bit in confusion. Are the 25 new projects that the Chairman of the Street Traders Select Committee talks about new in the sense that they are our responsibility or previously Government's responsibility and therefore it is Government that has to see them through and the funds are to be provided by the Government although the Urban Council became financially independent as long ago as 1973?
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MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, on this question, I cannot give Mr. BERNACCHI an immediate reply. I have to look into the matter again. I think the Planning & Development Select Committee is more clear on this matter.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-In the absence of the Chairman of the Planning & Development Select Committee, this question might be clarified by the Chairman of the Markets & Abattoirs Select Committee.
MR. PETER P. F. CHAN (in English):-Mr. Chairman, regarding the 25 market projects mentioned by Mr. SHUM. Some are Urban Council projects and some are joint-user projects. For instance, there is one in Kowloon which was intended to be a joint-user building but now since the Hong Kong Government does not want this to be a joint-user building, the Urban Council will try to develop this site as an Urban Council building for Urban Council facilities only. Of course, for other details, it is better for us to supply a written reply to Mr. BERNACCHI.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-The position is simply this. On 1 April 1973, those projects which were in Categories A, D and E were the Government's responsibility. So, if any of the 25 projects in their original form and schedules of accommodation, were in these 3 categories, the Government would pay. If they were not at that time in any of the categories, or were in effect still under planning, they are a complete Urban Council financial responsibility.
MR. BERNACCHI (in English):-In a further clarification in the Chairman of Street Traders Select Committee's reply to Mr. MACKENZIE, he gave the impression that it was entirely the Government's responsibility and that we have no say when the work can be executed. If, however, the funds are our funds surely we have a say in when the work will be executed.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-Again, I would like to ask the Chairman of the Markets & Abattoirs Select Committee whether he wishes to clarify or he would prefer that I do so.
MR. PETER P. F. CHAN (in English):-Mr. Chairman, what Mr. SHUM said earlier is correct in the sense that Government either has a responsibility for some finance in certain project included in the schedule in the Memorandum of Administrative Arrangements and, in other sense, Government should provide the land or make the land available to the U.C. before we can proceed with these projects, and of course, included in these 25 projects are certain non-market projects, for instance, the improvement of abattoir service.
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