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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
If two
MR. HU (in English):-I confirm that, Mr. Chairman. General Duties Teams are created, then the figure of General Duties Teams should be a little bit less than $14M.
MR. MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr. Hu, on the question of revenue. Is it a fact that $3M of the $4M is contributed by possibly twelve or thirteen thousand fixed pitch hawkers alone and, therefore, the total revenue from the 20,000 itinerant hawkers and the 40,000 unlicensed hawkers at present is only $1M per annum?
MR. HU (in English):-I agree with Mr. MACKENZIE's estimate concerning the income from the hawker licences fees. We also think that the fees are too low, and are now in the process of reconsidering the whole rate of the licence fees of various hawkers.
MR. MACKENZIE (in English):-I wonder if Mr. Hu will so really agree with my conclusion that expenditure of $24M on hawker services, or $2M per month, plus the vast sums of over a hundred million of capital expenditure envisaged leads me to conclude that there must be some relook at this whole question of policy, and would I ask if Mr. Hu's committee is, in fact, looking at some radical realignment of hawker licence fees to bring them much more into line with the expenditure of ratepayers funds.
MR. HU (in English): -My answer to Mr. MACKENZIE's question is "Yes". We are now in process of considering.
MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, would the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee consider why over 75% of the expenditure of hawkers is on control, and only about 5% is on improvements. Would he consider whether emphasis on improvements will reduce the need for control?
MR. HU (in English):-I quite agree with Mrs. ELLIOTT. As a matter of fact, Mrs. ELLIOTT did raise this valid point in the Select Committee meeting, and I used her point in convincing our colleagues in Finance Select Committee and in other Select Committee as well. If you read this expenditure, of course, we spend too little on the construction of bazaars. We do spend proportionally too much on the controlling force. Even the $15m in the ten year plan, the total expenditure of hawker bazaars for a 10-year, I consider to be far from being adequate.
MR. TSIN SAI-NIN (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, have we ever considered it we should have more hawker bazaars and should have more ways financially to solve the hawker problem?
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MR. HU (in English):-It is a very good proposition. We certainly will consider that. As Mr. TSIN is our Vice-Chairman, he knows that we are driving in this direction.
MR. MACKENZIE (in English):--Mr. Chairman, I was glad to see the Chairman of the Select Committee is happy with the expenditure, but what about the revenue? Does he feel that 12¢ per working day per itinerant hawker is a reasonable contribution for the very substantial sums spent. We have here an inequitable situation, in my opinion? Would Mr. Hu not agree?
MR. HU (in English):-Of course, we cannot generalize where hawkers are concerned. For some, 12¢ is too much. But others should contribute much more than that. But, in any event, as I have said our expenditure is over $20M, our income from hawker licence fees is only about $4M. We certainly will take that situation into consideration and will revise the fees so that the gap could at least be reduced.
MRS. GRACE Ho (in English): -Will Mr. Hu inform us whether in revising the policy on the licence fees for hawkers, has consideration been given to the number of unlicensed hawkers who are already trading in our streets, and has consideration been given to incorporating these under a licence?
MR. HU (in English):-Mr. Chairman, as Mrs. Ho will see, there are about 40,000 hawkers who are unlicensed. We certainly gave very active consideration to whether we should give them a licence or not. Certainly the question of the income from the hawkers may persuade us to give each unlicensed hawker a licence. So if that is the case, then in future, there will be over 70,000 hawkers who will pay licence fees instead of, at present, only about 30,000. About the increase of income, there are two aspects. First, if we give the licence to the unlicensed hawkers, they would pay the licence fees. Second, we can increase licence fees.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, some emphasis has been laid on the fact that some hawkers pay 12¢. Would the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee tell us what they get for the 12¢ besides the piece of paper called the licence which entitles them to get arrested for obstruction, and then pay a fine? Are the fines also counted in the income of the Urban Services Department?
MR. HU (in English): --That was not a question in the past because we tried our best to give them somewhere to hawk. In future,
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