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MR. HU (in English):-We, of course, have the Bylaw that hawker stalls should be 3' by 4′ and, in certain exceptional cases, we permit the stall to be 3′ by 6′. But about this experimental scheme, we haven't really carried this Bylaw into that area at this moment. Of course, if an unreasonable size appeared, we should take action, but usually we believe that hawkers have good sense. As I've said, and I saw the actual situation, most people are very sensible and it is only an experiment. But we will see after the scheme has been put into practice.
MISS YEUNG (in Cantonese):-About the size of these hand-carts, there are such specifications. Now I wish to know something about the Police officers trying to forbid those people collecting money there. I think they should try their best to stop this earlier.
MR. HU (in English):—Mr. Chairman, thank you Miss YEUNG for raising this point. I will pass it to the Police.
MR. ALEX S. C. Wu (in English):-Mr. Chairman, can Mr. Hu please clarify whether the H.P.A. scheme will be conducted in areas which are suitable for hawking, but with no existing hawkers, such as the Cheung Sha Wan flower market. And, in this respect, I would like to suggest perhaps using some of the playgrounds part-time (Laughter) because if this is a temporary measure to help the unemployed, certainly everybody should be called upon to make sacrifices.
MR. HU (in English):—I personally did give very serious consideration of Mr. Wu's point of using playgrounds and vacant streets for hawking. Later I thought that it was not quite desirable to give playgrounds to hawkers for hawking for three reasons. First, we are equally in need of playgrounds. Secondly, once we use playgrounds as hawker bazaars or for temporary use, we probably could never turn them to be playgrounds again. Thirdly, sometimes hawkers would not like to go there because they are afraid that there would be no business. So this idea is very good. We will seriously discuss this in the Select Committee. But at this moment, for this experimental scheme, we are sorry that we haven't gone into that area yet. About Mr. Wu's first question, I think Mr. Wu did join us once when we visited for 20 days the hawkers in March and May last year. We have already surveyed all streets on both sides of harbour, including not only the Urban Council and Urban Services Department, but also Fire Services representatives, transport representatives, C.D.O.s and many other relative Government officials, were present. We decide on the spot how to deal with that street. We first took notes on how many existing hawkers there were in the street. Then we decide whether the stalls should be kept or not. If they should be kept, each hawker licence would be specially endorsed. Then the third point was whether we should have more hawkers in the street. If we wanted to have more hawkers, what kind of hawkers, on what side, on left-hand side or right-hand side or both sides. Street by street we reached the decision which was already made in December last year and was already in existence. So if we, the Select Committee or the Government want to expand this scheme, the material is available. It can be very easily expanded. For the moment, we only limit to these 23 streets because, as I have said, this is an experiment.
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MR. KENNETH T. C. Lo (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I rise on a point of clarification. Mr. Henry Hu has referred to playgrounds as vacant "things". They are not vacant things (Laughter). They are very heavily utilised by children and young people and so on. Let the hawker experimental scheme be conducted in suitable streets, but please not in parks and playgrounds.
MR. HU (in English):-I said "playgrounds and vacant streets".
MR. SHUM CHOI-SANG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, there are now 23 streets in these hawker permitted areas and, of course, if they have sufficient space, there would not be any trouble. If the space is not enough, then we have to consider two problems. First, how are we going to deal with those hawkers who cannot have any space? Are they to be permitted to hawk there and secondly for those people who arrive there earlier, they occupy the space, of course, there would be a lot of hawkers lined up waiting for the space.
MR. HU (in English):—I have a very close contact with the hawker associations and the hawkers. They were very much against the "first come, first served" principle. They said that this will cause them undue hardship. We certainly will take that into consideration. To alleviate their hardship, I gather that it is up to our Select Committee's decision, but certainly we will expand that scheme so that any hawkers who want to hawk could be given a chance. This is, as a matter of fact, what I said in our Annual Debate. We cannot ensure any stall but we probably can give them an equal chance. As I have said before, we have the materials available. If they want to expand the scheme, we could expand. But we do not do it now because we are not quite sure how we should do the procedures in various matters. We would see within a limited area, then we could expand.
MR. EDMUND W. H. CHOW (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I know that the Hawkers Select Committee wants to help people who are unemployed or underemployed, so that they can earn their livelihood.
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