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MR. LO:-Thank you, Mr. SALES. Mr. Chairman, I wonder whether the Commissioner could advise this Council what has to happen, what he has to do in order to find an answer to question (b) since he hasn't got an answer now, and when this question was presumably asked with due notice, you know it would be nice if this Council knew precisely what has to take place before we can get an answer.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I can't give an answer.
MRS. ELLIOTT: Mr. Chairman, may I help the Commissioner by saying that I am going to give some figures in my speech.
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I would like you to confirm to this Council that I gave almost a month's notice of these three questions?
CHAIRMAN:-That is correct, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I am trying to establish the magnitude of our housing problem in Hong Kong, because a recent statement was made by very high authority here that in a decade or so the public sector's intervention in housing in Hong Kong might well come to an end, and I doubt on the strength of the figures Government has furnished to this Council today whether this public housing programme or state-aided housing programme can ever come to an end in Hong Kong. This is what I said 13 years ago when I first joined the Council and it has been said by other Members. We will all repeat today that Government cannot shirk its responsibility for housing the people here. Thank you for letting me make a speech ahead of time. (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, does the Resettlement Department have an estimate of the number of illegal structures, apart from those which now exist in resettlement estates? I am referring to the figure of 77,000 odd, 77,240 which are tolerated. Does the Resettlement Department have an estimate of the number of illegal structures, that is structures which are not tolerated?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, as soon as a new illegal structure put up after 1964 is discovered it will be demolished and action will be taken. There shouldn't be any at all.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-In theory, yes, and those which do come to the notice of the Department presumably are demolished. Certainly the Department, and I am referring to Senior Department officials, must have an estimate of the number of structures which should not be tolerated but still in fact exist. Isn't there some figure?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-We have figures for how many demolition operations we do during the year.
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MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, I do know that there are demolitions; I am not asking for that figure. I am asking, in relation to this question, does the department have an estimate of the number of structures which should not be tolerated but which do in fact exist?
CHAIRMAN:-I would need notice of that question, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: But you agree, Mr. Chairman, that that supplementary question is in very close relation to the context of this entire reply?
MR. SALES: It is not close enough.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-It may not be close enough but I think it is very related. I don't think it is up to Mr. SALES to answer that, I think it is up to you, Mr. Chairman.
MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I deplore as much as Mr. CHEONG-LEEN the fact that you muzzled the Commissioner for Resettlement; you prevented him from answering Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's supplementary.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Well then Mr. SALES should have got up and said it was very close and not that it is not close enough.
CHAIRMAN: ---May we move to the next question, please.
MR. SALES: Oh, I haven't finished asking my questions yet. Sir, with your permission I would like to refer to 4(c), New Territories squatters 20,000. Am I allowed to ask a supplementary?
CHAIRMAN:-Frame your supplementary, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES: May I have your permission to ask questions about the New Territories resettlement?
CHAIRMAN:-Frame your question, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES: Sir, the 20,000 squatters are only those in areas needed for development?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I think, Sir, that these figures were supplied by the District Commissioner. I think the actual figures given was squatter structures in the New Territories not covered by permits in the New Territories. The District Commissioner is also the land authority and he is free to issue permits. Once a structure is covered by a permit, it ceases to be a squatter.
MR. SALES:-Sir, is the Commissioner for Resettlement not the competent authority for resettlement in the New Territories?
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