160
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
and the Urban Services Department and everybody else to control it instead". It cannot be controlled unless it is licensed. As Mrs. ELLIOTT says, we are not talking of hawkers operating from a gutter. The public does require meat hawkers because of the inadequacy of our meat markets. Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN has given the figures. There are only 600 market stalls, whereas the Urban Services Department admits that there are about 800 meat hawkers currently operating illegally. Perhaps it is more likely to be over a thousand currently operating illegally. So, in my submission, one of the ways that I contemplate that this motion can be implemented is by turning the present illegal meat hawker bazaars, especially in Resettlement Estates, into mini-markets with the smallest possible amount of red tape, instead of waiting for years and years before we have any sort of control whatsoever. For these reasons, I ask Members to support the Motion so that it can be sent to the Policy Select Committee for implementation.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:
Mr. Chairman, on a point of factual clarification, may I point out to Mr. BERNACCHI through you that in addition to 650 meat stalls in 40 markets spread out throughout the urban areas, there are also 1,508 fresh provision shops which sell meat, and I would also point out, through you to Mr. BERNACCHI, that it will not take years to set up mini-markets. Mr. BERNACCHI being a good lawyer should not pre-judge a situation.
MR. BERNACCHI: If it does not take years, I shall be very surprised. As to the fifteen hundred licensed meat shops, our population is over four million and increasing every day, and in my estimation over a thousand illegally operating meat hawkers are selling meat because there is a demand for it, and whether we like it or not they will sell meat and they should be therefore properly controlled, and the only way of controlling them is by licensing them and turning them into mini-markets with the least possible amount of red tape.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: On another point of factual clarification, Mr. Chairman, could I draw to Mr. BERNACCHI's attention, through you, that this proposal for mini-markets has been discussed time and again in the Policy Committee, and the Policy Committee is committed to it so I do not quite appreciate what Mr. BERNACCHI is driving at.
MR. BERNACCHI: I do not know whether my learned friend is trying to deprive me of my right to the last word but, of course, the point of it is that mini-markets take designing and setting up with a great amount of red tape, whereas a temporary mini-market such as the poultry hawkers have in two Resettlement Estates, where they have been set up as temporary markets with a minimum amount of red tape, just adequate drainage and that sort of thing, can be done in these
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
161
illegal meat hawker bazaars almost overnight, within a month or two, and with that done they could be licensed accordingly.
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I do not want to encourage Mr. BERNACCHI to exercise his right to reply for the fourth time, so I will keep very quiet on his last statement.
The question was put.
The Motion was lost with 13 votes against, 2 votes for and 4 abstentions.
MR. SALES: Before you adjourn, Mr. Chairman, may I offer you our congratulations on the way you have conducted this meeting, your first one as Chairman of the Council.
MR. BERNACCHI: I would like to join with my learned friend, Mr. SALES, in that congratulation.
CHAIRMAN: I am most grateful to you for your forbearance.
ADJOURNMENT
5.57 P.M.
CHAIRMAN: That concludes the business of this meeting. Council stands adjourned until the 2nd September, 1969 at 4.00 p.m.
PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER, HONG KONG
Page 91 of 237