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advisedly and for this reason that questions that should have been put to other departments were put in respect to your department in order to bring them within the ambit of our Standing Orders?
CHAIRMAN: ---That is correct, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES: So, in the event, Sir, is it not at your instigation that the question was asked whether the Marine Department had been instigated to take certain measures?
CHAIRMAN: --I do not think so, Mr. Sales.
MR. SALES-It was not at my own instigation, was it?
CHAIRMAN: I think the term came from you, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES: ---No, but you refused to accept my original questions as drafted and so they had to be re-drafted to bring your department into the picture. Evidently this matter concerns the Marine Department and the Council has the right to know, because the end result is the position of our beaches regardless of which Government Department. We should not be splitting hairs on which Government Departments are responsible. We should be in a position to ask you questions in a straightforward manner as I did originally. What is being done by the Government to protect our beaches?
CHAIRMAN: -You yourself said this was not a question of debate. The questions were put in the best way that I could get the information for you. You have your limits of responsibilities laid down by law and I try to keep you within those.
MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, I said I was appreciative of the comprehensive reply that you gave, but I do not think the Urban Council should be hamstrung in this matter and where the public interest is concerned, and the public interest touches upon the responsibility of the Urban Council, the Government has to accept a question from an Urban Councillor without the question having to be worded in a clumsy manner.
CHAIRMAN: I cannot accept that, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES: Well, may I refer that to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee?
CHAIRMAN: ---Certainly, Mr. SALES.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, you say that the sea aspect of this problem is dealt with by the Marine Department and the land aspect is dealt with by the Urban Services Department. Is there adequate liaison between these two departments in this important matter?
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CHAIRMAN:-As far as I am concerned, certainly Mr. BERNACCHI; you see the whole object of the exercise is to set up a co-ordinating committee and get the thing working on the ground. The Public Works Department is also involved on occasions and the Fire Services as well.
MR. FORSGATE:-Mr. Chairman, I think you and Mr. SALES are getting into rather deep water, out of your depth in fact, because these sorts of questions rather savour the sort of questions which I ask at the Port Executive Committee, and this whole question of oil pollution has been flogged very hard indeed and I, personally, am quite satisfied that the Government departments concerned are doing a very good job, investigating by personal observation in other parts of the world what other people are doing, sometimes in a rather back-handed way to deal with our pollution, but sometimes there are rather strange methods like using chalk at the beach at Porto Rico which, come off, but, in other instances, where they have been used they have not worked at all. There is no hard and fast rule for clearing oil pollution, and as far as dealing with the tidal flow, it flows only twice in twenty-four hours, and it is very difficult to conceive around Hong Kong where an oil slick is going to end up.
There is one supplementary I would like to ask you, Mr. Chairman. I have heard from a number of people going to the New Territories beaches, outside our jurisdiction, but nevertheless I still ask the question, whether some better results could not be achieved in cleaning the beaches there. My colleague, Roger LOBO, tells me that he went to Lamma and to Lantau this week-end and also to Clear Water Bay and the kids in his particular boat came off the beaches with their feet smothered in oil and had to be cleaned off with gasoline. Now, this is a very difficult problem indeed, because it is not the sort of massive pollution we are talking about around this table, it is a very minor one, but it is a very, very irritating one for anyone who has suffered, and it would be appalling if we have got to resort to what they do in the Mediterranean and hand every sun-bather a little can of gasoline before he goes down to the beach. (Laughter). If I may ask one small one, you talk about, in paragraph 4(iii), the provision of the 3,000 feet of these booms. Do you know the answer if I ask it, when will they be provided and what method is going to be utilized in keeping the oil slicks out. Are they going to be utilized for keeping them out of typhoon shelters and away from beaches?
CHAIRMAN:-They have not really decided on which particular type of boom to purchase yet; they are considering this, but the idea is to surround the oil slick, if possible, or at least protect typhoon shelters or beaches by these booms.
MR. FORSGATE:-Mr. Chairman, I would say that we have a P.E.C. meeting to-morrow, and I am quite sure this Council will be delighted
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