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MR. BERNACCHI : -I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, but the policy of the Urban Council as at present, is unlimited issue of pedlar licences, not necessarily if there are sites. That policy can be changed, of course, but it is the policy at the moment, passed by this Council in open meeting several years ago.
CHAIRMAN:---I would like to think it will be changed, Mr. BERNACCHI.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask what does the licence entitle the pedlar hawker to do?
MR. BERNACCHI:-Legally to hawk with a pole and two baskets, and not to stay on any one site. Actually, of course, that is not the hawkers' view of the matter at all, and this Council must accept in any future policies that pedlar hawkers in Hong Kong hawk from static positions.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:--Then, Mr. Chairman, is it not a fact that the great majority of the estimated 30,000 illegal hawkers are operating from static positions?
MR. BERNACCHI-I would say, yes, and in fact, as I said in the answer I have just given to Mr. Hu's question, the great majority are even hawking from illegal structures.
MR. LOBO:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask Mr. BERNACCHI through you, to clarify a point. I am not very clear about this. In his reply he says "There is a very large number of unlicensed (and in some cases unlicensable) hawkers, roughly estimated at present to be in the region of 30,000. I am afraid that this unsatisfactory situation will continue until the strength of the Hawker Control Force is raised to a realistic level". What does he mean? 30,000 hawkers or unlicensed hawkers of 30,000 being undesirable?
MR. BERNACCHI :-I mean that it is undesirable that unlicensed hawkers should hawk. They should either be licensed, or the streets should be kept clear of unlicensed hawkers generally. That is not possible at present with the Urban Services staff, including the Hawker Control Force, being at its present strength.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, am I to presume that the hawker who buys a licence is in a worse position than the unlicensed hawker who can put a stall down anywhere, and if all the unlicensed hawkers do buy a licence, do you contemplate having them all walking around the streets?
MR. BERNACCHI: -I think that is about three questions in one.
The answer to the first part is that many pedlar hawkers think that the licence does not give them sufficient benefit, and therefore they hawk unlicensed and, as I said, often in illegal structures and that is an unsatisfactory state of affairs. The answer to the second part is that I think this Council must realize that the pedlar hawkers hawk from a static site. So that the answer in my own opinion would be to licence the actual hawkers hawking on the ground at present, and to stabilize it to that extent. But in my opinion a very much larger Force is required on the ground than is available to this Council at present.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, as an alternative to expanding the present Hawker Control Force, has the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee considered asking the Police to give more attention to the control of the hawker position, especially the illegal hawkers?
MR. BERNACCHI :-The Hawker Control Force was formed, because it was intimated to this Council that the Police had other more important things to do than to control hawkers, other than in the main streets. The hawkers are controlled by the Police in main streets.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, through you I would ask Mr. BERNACCHI, instead of fortifying measures to control food hawkers, could the newly formed Hawkers Select Committee consider the social measures to solve the hawker problem. For example, the social security system, or anything to solve it?
CHAIRMAN:-Mr. Hu. I am going to rule this out of order, because your question has been very fully answered by Mr. BERNACCHI and you have had many supplementaries dealing with stuff which strictly speaking was not in line with the original question. I think you must give the new Hawkers Select Committee the chance to look into the various facets of this problem.
MR. HU:-Very well, Mr. Chairman. I hope that my question can be notified to the new Select Committee to consider this aspect of the question?
CHAIRMAN: It shall be done.
(7) DR. P. F. Woo asked the following question:--
Would the Chairman make a statement on the report given in the press about a buffalo that escaped from the Abattoir and caused panic in Kennedy Town area? This is the second occurrence of such incident within recent years. Would the Chairman state whether there are sufficient precautionary measures in the new abattoir to prevent such occurrence?
MR. WILSON T. S. WANG, CHAIRMAN OF THE ABATTOIRS AND OFFENSIVE TRADES SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows:-
This question concerns the escape of a buffalo on 11th September.
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