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the sites. Why are the sites so limited, is my first supplementary; do they need to be so limited? Does the U.S.D. send somebody around the streets to mark out available pitches and keep the list up-to-date each month or perhaps each week, or, Mr. Chairman, is it the same old list that is produced time after time with the same old pitches which nobody wants for years and years?
MR. BERNACCHI: ---Certainly Dr. BELL has asked about half a dozen supplementaries in one. Why are the sites so limited? is a very complicated one actually, but I will try and be brief. Many years ago, a number of sites were allocated to the Urban Council. These, in course of time, were completely taken up except for the same old vacant sites that have been vacant for year after year and appear on the list year after year. Now, therefore, I lead into the next question. Does it need to be so limited? I would be happy indeed as Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee to say it doesn't, but of course other factors have to be taken into account such as: traffic, pedestrians and the fact that Hong Kong is a modern city. Therefore, the Police and the Fire Services departments have to be consulted on any new site. Contrary to common belief, the Police and the Fire Services Department have in fact consented to a very large number of sites over the course of the years, even though they turn down one out of every two or three sites, or even four out of every five. So that an individual applicant who goes and finds sites for himself needs to find about 10 sites before one is finally approved and that, of course, is not a good thing. But coming then into the last proposition, which is indeed a suggestion from Dr. BELL herself, namely that the department goes out into the streets and finds the sites and supplements the list of vacant sites periodically by finding new sites, getting approval and then putting it on the list. Now firstly, have we got enough bodies on the ground to do this work? If so, it's a good suggestion. The other thing, of course, is that the Urban Council, or the Urban Services Department staff, are not hawkers and their consideration of what is a good site may not be the same as the hawkers. But certainly I will take up with the Hawkers Select Committee the suggestion that an Overseer, or some person of that nature, goes round and finds new sites and puts them up en bloc to the Police and to the Fire Services Department for consideration.
DR. BELL:—Mr. Chairman, perhaps the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee would also be prepared to look at another suggestion. That is that an applicant for a site who has already been granted his licence on compassionate grounds might be accompanied by somebody from the U.S.D. to the site that they have suggested themselves. Frequently, the site that is suggested by the persons turns out to be no use because they are new to the problem themselves. They've not been hawkers before and they don't realize the difficulties, whereas somebody who is working in the hawker office would know at a glance whether the site was completely unfeasible or whether it was possible.
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hawkers before and they don't realize the difficulties, whereas somebody who is working in the hawker office would know at a glance whether the site was completely unfeasible or whether it was possible.
MR. BERNACCHI: - That again has been brought up before and I can say that in certain cases where the applicant gets completely frustrated by being turned down again and again, the Hawkers Select Committee does arrange with the Department for a member of the Department to go round with him and usually it is eventually successful. But if a member of the Department went round with every applicant, every successful applicant for a fixed pitch licence, I think that it would require an extension of the personnel of the Department.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, would such an extension not be valid perhaps when these people are compassionate cases and at present time are having to wait very many months before they get a site to earn their living?
MR. BERNACCHI: - As Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee, I can only answer yes I think so.
MRS. ELLIOTT: - Mr. Chairman, may I ask another supplementary, as I have recently come across a case of a man who has asked for about 60 sites in the past 8 years and still hasn't got one. May I ask if it is possible to grant on the basis "first come, first served"? If a man finds a site, don't wait for half a dozen others to ask for it too for then he misses it. Is it possible to do that?
MR. BERNACCHI: - I think perhaps that applies. I don't know the details of the application Mrs. ELLIOTT is referring to but usually the ballots for sites are for sites opposite a new restaurant. The man in the street sees decorations going on and very quickly gets to know that a new restaurant is proposing to open. Immediately, one gets an application for a fixed pitch hawker site, usually newspapers, opposite the restaurant. The Police and Fire Services Department consider that a maximum of 2 sites would be reasonable and not more. The Council usually, not always, but usually does consult them and takes their advice. What would happen if the Council really started ignoring their advice? I don't know, perhaps there'd be a real bust up, but that hasn't arisen yet and usually by the time the restaurant opens there are about 5 or 6 applicants for these two sites and that means a ballot.
MRS. ELLIOTT: Mr. Chairman, leaving it in this way of getting several applicants often results in, the hawkers say, results in fixing it up so that some person, some special person gets it. Would it not be possible for the first person who is eligible for a compassionate site on compassionate grounds and already has been told he can have one, could he not be given it, the first one to apply?
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