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of the prerogative of this Council in matters which fall within its purview, and I am wondering to what extent this action on the part of the Chief Justice impinges on the province of the Urban Council in respect of the Hawkers Select Committee, and for that reason I would like that the Hawkers Select Committee should be given the terms of reference of this special committee, so as to ensure that in no way the Judiciary should attempt to interfere with the executive.
CHAIRMAN:-Sir, it is my impression that there has been no infringement on the power of the Urban Council in this matter, and this was a committee set up by the Judiciary to deal entirely with the procedure of hawker matters in courts concerning Justices of the Peace. I am sure that if there had been any question of it infringing the rights of the Council or of the Hawkers Select Committee, then the Select Committee would by this time have said something about it.
MR. BERNACCHI:-To supplement your answer, if I may, Mr. Chairman, I myself am quite satisfied at present that this committee in no way impinges on the statutory duties of this Urban Council, and although personally I think it would have been better had the Chief Justice seen fit to invite a Member of the Hawkers Select Committee to sit on this special committee, it is after all up to him. He has not seen fit to do so, and this Committee is a judicial committee sitting to consider judicial proceedings, when the hawker comes before the court.
MR. SALES: I am glad that the matter has been clarified, Sir, and I would like your assurance to be recorded and also that the Select Committee to keep a close watch on developments in order to ensure that the proceedings are in fact related to judicial proceedings in court, and not matters involving hawker policy, which are strictly the statutory duties of this Council.
MR. HU: --Mr. Chairman, I would ask you one question. These children are between the ages of ten and sixteen. Surely this is not a judiciary matter, this is a question which should be considered from the point of view of social welfare.
Arising from my supplementary question to Mr. BERNACCHI, I would like to ask you Mr. Chairman to express an opinion, whether this should be principally a social welfare problem, or a judicial problem? I think it should be a social welfare problem.
MR. BERNACCHI:-I think Mr. Hu, that it is a problem in which the Education Department is primarily concerned, because if the children were at school all day the problem would not arise. Secondly, of course, it is a social welfare problem, and thirdly it eventually ends up by being a judicial problem. (Laughter).
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(19) MR. H. M. G. FORSGATE asked the following question:-
(a) Arising out of the recent stranding of the oil tanker "Thomas P" on Lamma Island, is the Chairman aware that had this tanker been carrying heavy oil such as a boiler fuel and not light oil, some of Hong Kong's beaches could have been heavily polluted?
(b) What special provision is there, if any, for the cleansing of beaches polluted with black fuel oil?
(c) How would the cost of cleansing beaches which have been polluted with black fuel oil be met and which department would be responsible for meeting it?
(d) Is the Chairman aware that without special assistance it might take a considerable time to remove oil pollution from such beaches as Deep Water Bay, Repulse Bay, Shek O and Big Wave Bay?
THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows: —
The answer to part (a) of the question is that I am aware that had the stranded oil tanker "Thomas P" been carrying heavy oil, some of Hong Kong's beaches might have been polluted. Pollution from a source such as this however depends very much on the wind and tide at the time and place of the grounding.
The answer to part (b) of the question is that there is no special provision at the present time for the cleansing of beaches polluted with black fuel oil. This is because the possibility of such an eventuality is small, and any special provision would require extra staff and recurrent cost which it is not thought to be justified in the circumstances. However, the Department will re-examine the future need in this respect and make appropriate recommendations to the Urban Amenities Select Committee.
The answer to part (c) of the question is that the cost of cleansing beaches which have been polluted with oil would be met from the Department's maintenance vote.
The answer to part (d) of the question is that I am aware that without special assistance it might take a considerable time to remove oil pollution from our main beaches. The time required to do the work would, of course, be dependent on the extent of the pollution. The Department's beach staff are capable of dealing with oil pollution swiftly and effectively but special assistance would be sought if the magnitude of the work warranted it.
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