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excluded. I have never appeared in these proceedings. If any proceedings for the deportation of a citizen could be open, or as open as the circumstances permitted, it would be better. Nowadays these proceedings are conducted entirely behind closed doors. Nobody knows what is going on, and when a legal Chairman has recommended to the Government that, in his view a certain procedure should be adopted, Government sticks to its original decision no matter what circumstances may emerge later to show that the decision should be changed. I do not think that Government need fear any loss of face if it was to change its decision. With these words I think at least Mrs. ELLIOTT's motion has these merits. I whole-heartedly support this motion under the name of Mrs. ELLIOTT.
DR. BELL:—I would like to lend my support to this Motion of Mrs. ELLIOTT's worded as it is here.
I myself have never come across any of the type of cases that Mrs. ELLIOTT has outlined to us to-day, and it is very concerning to hear of these cases.
I have always felt that with our regulation, which is after all an emergency regulation which permits deportation of those people who are a danger to the Colony politically, rather than in other ways, I feel, like Mr. Hu, that it would be good if there was perhaps less secrecy over the business of deportation.
I feel that figures should be published as to the number of people who are deported annually, and more particularly the number of people who are not deported because there is nowhere for them to be deported to, and the number who are detained indefinitely rather than deported from this Colony.
I think we should know these figures, and we ought from them to be able to see whether in fact there is abuse of this emergency regulation. I support Mrs. ELLIOTT's motion that we should express our concern to Government that threats are being made that people may be deported for offences other than serious political offences in the Colony.
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I just want to put a question at this stage to you. The Motion has been notified to you for some considerable time. No doubt you have sought clarification from Government as to whether in fact Government is, or is not, satisfied that this situation prevails in Hong Kong. In the circumstances, could you tell this Council what your findings are?
CHAIRMAN: -Sir, it was not my intention to take part in this debate, because what I had to say has already been said by at least two of the Members present, I think in part by Mrs. ELLIOTT and in total by Mr. Hu; merely that if these threats of deportation for minor offences are
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in fact made, they are totally unauthorized and therefore empty, and should be disregarded.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. SALES, would you like to speak before me, or after me?
MR. SALES: -I feel that at least one member on the appointed side should speak on this occasion, otherwise our position might go by default. I have never hesitated to express my opinion on any subject that has come before this Council. I do not now hesitate to tell this Council what I think about the motion.
First, speaking in support of the previous motion, I myself expressed very serious concern about the situation whereby there are no curbs on the excessive application of power.
Secondly, we must always defend the liberty of the subject. At the same time, I feel that we must also uphold the right of the State to safeguard the interest of the people when that interest is threatened. I myself have had experience of serving on the Review Committee, as no doubt some of my fellow Councillors have done, as well. I believe that there are instances when this situation serves the purpose of protecting a citizen, and for that I have never thought that the State was wrong because it was for the good of the majority. At the same time I support Mrs. ELLIOTT's wish to ensure that this power is not abused. I think that all reasonable citizens will agree that this power should only be exercised when the cases cannot be tried through the proper judicial procedure. What we would like to know is, has there ever been an instance whereby such procedures have been short-circuited? That is the point.
I believe too that the motion is so worded that it is clear beyond doubt that Mrs. ELLIOTT refers to the Police Force, the force responsible for law and order in Hong Kong. Secondly, Mrs. ELLIOTT refers to the 'lower echelons' which of course again means the other ranks of the Police Force. Sir, if that is the case, to disabuse our minds and to disabuse the minds of the public, and to remove any possible doubt, I suggest that Government must make an authoritative statement on this matter. I believe too, that all of us who live in Hong Kong must agree that we enjoy a tremendous amount of freedom of expression. Were it not so, sir, I might myself have been deported a long time ago (laughter) and I would not question you, Sir, if after last month's Council meeting, you yourself harboured thoughts of deporting the Urban Councillors. (Laughter). But that, Sir, does not now mean that I think that there may not be examples of the abuse of power by subordinate functionaries of Government. To what extent is that curbed by their superior officers must be established. The suggestion might have been made-I don't know whether it has-that such an abuse of power is
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