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CHAIRMAN: -A number of traffic questions have been asked in this Council, particularly those pertaining to resettlement estates, and this question by Mr. Hu does pertain to a resettlement estate. If you are interested I keep a special file of all the questions which are rejected by me, and were rejected by my predecessor. All I can say is that I am very pleased there are few questions shown as rejected on the list which has been kept since I became the Chairman.
DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, is it not true that sometimes it is not possible to relate traffic to resettlement estates? One tries very hard to relate it. (Laughter). Occasionally it is quite difficult to get one near enough.
CHAIRMAN:-That may well be so. Traffic is not actually within the competence of this Council.
DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, how do you explain "and other traffic matters" being endorsed by yourself?
CHAIRMAN:-I did not write that answer.
DR. BELL:-But you just answered Mr. BERNACCHI, that you considered it was justifiable?
CHAIRMAN: -He asked me to explain why I rejected a question by Mr. Hu, and I explained that I did not reject the question.
DR. BELL:-Previous to that, he asked whether you endorsed it and you said you considered it justifiable.
CHAIRMAN: -I said that traffic matters were raised, and so far as I know they are raised through the Traffic Advisory Committee.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Another supplementary, Mr. Chairman. I would ask you to refer this matter to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee as to whether this Council has or has not jurisdiction to ask questions generally about traffic matters, because this Council has a representative on the Traffic Advisory Board, and in my own submission from that, it would appear that members of the Council are in order to ask questions generally about traffic matters, and not relate them to a resettlement or Housing Authority estate?
MR. SALES: Should that question not be referred to the Legal Department directly without reference to Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee? Because the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee will only be concerned with standing orders as they are, or a revision of standing orders to empower such questions to be asked. This involves, I believe, the Urban Council Ordinance, and so the matter might well be referred to the Legal Department in the first instance, and then considered by the Standing Committee of the Whole Council.
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CHAIRMAN:-Mr. BERNACCHI, in this case, I propose to refer the matter as Mr. SALES has suggested.
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, I would ask this supplementary question.
At first I really asked about parking only. Now, on the question of "other traffic matters", for example, safety measures for the public, is this within the jurisdiction of the Council?
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, may I suggest, only if we exercise our right to make representations through our representative on the Traffic Advisory Committee. I think that is the way that we have acted so far, and unless there is a change in the Ordinance governing the Urban Council we would not be able to directly be involved in traffic matters.
I may, at this stage, ask a supplementary question which I think important. This is: can you seek from Government an assurance that should there be any change in the control which is now exercised over traffic matters in Hong Kong through the Traffic Advisory Committee, this Council would not be left out in the cold without any representative, as it is possible that a change might be contemplated in such matters? That, Sir, is an important assurance that we must seek from Government: that we would not be deprived of the representation which we now have on the Traffic Advisory Committee.
CHAIRMAN:-I will certainly put your point to Government.
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, I am grateful for what Mr. SALES has said, but from what I understand, matters concerning traffic safety is surely within the jurisdiction of the Urban Council. It is only in what form our voice should be heard. Is it through our representative in the Traffic Advisory Committee, or should we be heard in this Council? I think, in either case, the natural implication is that traffic matters are within the jurisdiction of the Urban Council. Mr. Chairman, do I understand it correctly?
CHAIRMAN: --Sir, I regret I do not think you do understand it. (Laughter). Representations would have to be through our representative on the Traffic Advisory Committee. Traffic is not a subject for general discussion in this Council.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, in view of what has just been said, would you give it your consideration, as Chairman of this Council, that we may ask in public at these meetings, the questions we would like our adviser, our member, our representative on the Traffic Advisory Committee to ask that committee in order that these questions may be made public?
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