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MR. SALES: May I ask Mr. CHEONG-LEEN to clarify that, Sir, because we don't understand his obscure term. I don't suppose Mr. CHEONG-LEEN understands it himself? (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Please, Sir, the Elected Members have never doubted the integrity of Appointed Members, and Mr. SALES seems to think that we are.
MR. SALES: The integrity of Appointed Members has never been questioned. I think Mr. CHEONG-LEEN is looking at the wrong side of the table. (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: I don't think so, Sir, because I never raised that question in the first instance. Mr. SALES seems to want to assure Members of this fact.
MR. HENRY HU: Mr. Chairman, I want your assurance that no matter what answer is given to the question put forward by Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, it will not affect the attitude that we will take in the Annual Debate in December this year because, at the time of the Debate, an answer may not have been received, so it would not affect the attitude we will take.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: I think in this instance, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Henry Hu is apparently and quite convincingly speaking on behalf of all the Elected Members.
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, the Civic Association agrees with that statement?
CHAIRMAN: Sir, the question of altering the nature of the Annual Conventional Debate has not been raised by Government at all. It is merely that you have asked for certain things to be done in respect of statements made during the Annual Conventional Debate. That is the point which is under consideration.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Yes, Sir, I cannot for that reason understand the logic of Mr. SALES' statement.
MR. SALES: I don't suppose Mr. CHEONG-LEEN ever understands what logic is. (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, would Mr. SALES like us to have a debate on logic? (Laughter).
MR. HENRY HU: Mr. Chairman, I was not a Member at the last Annual Debate, but do I understand correctly that at the last Debate, matters outside the jurisdiction of the Urban Council were raised?
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If I understand correctly, then it would be a breach of jurisprudence if we are now to be restricted to matters within the scope of the Council. Naturally, if no answer is received from the Colonial Secretary we will still be entitled to raise matters which are not within the Council's scope.
I would like to refer to paragraph (a) of Mr. CHEONG-LEEN'S question where he urges that Government should adopt a more enlightened attitude in this matter. I presume that the Government did adopt an enlightened attitude last year. It is only that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN wants the Government to take a more enlightened attitude. (Laughter).
The point I really want to raise is that we are entitled to raise points which, strictly speaking, are outside the jurisdiction of the Council, and I hope that Official Members will answer our points accordingly.
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that Mr. Hu comes up here and sits next to me. I would be delighted to have him on our side. (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, just to clarify one point. I think that the question of whether or not Members of the Council, be they elected or appointed, will continue to express their views at the Annual Conventional Debate on subjects which, technically speaking, are outside the jurisdiction of this Council has never arisen. We have set a precedent and will continue to do so. But what is at issue, in my question, is whether or not Government is prepared to adopt a more enlightened attitude in answering questions or giving replies on subjects at the next Annual Conventional Debate on matters which are not within the scope of this Council.
CHAIRMAN: Sir, if I may take the first point first, particularly the point raised by my friend Mr. Hu. I have sat through a number of Annual Conventional Debates and I can assure him that much of the time is taken up by Members expatiating on matters which are not the concern of the Council. (Laughter). I have no doubt whatsoever, Sir, that there will be no change in the procedure this year; the same theme will be followed, but on the other point raised by Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, I can only refer him back to my answer. He has asked whether a more enlightened view will be adopted. The question has been referred to the Colonial Secretary and I feel that we must await his reply.
MR. BERNACCHI: Mr. Chairman, actually the word 'conventional' is derived from convention of the constitution, and a convention of the constitution in this Council is that Members at the Annual Conventional Debate are permitted to speak on any subject they wish.
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