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ward system" but to consider that we are actually extending the functions of Urban Councillors by assuming territorial responsibilities. In this connexion, there is some fear, and in fact some misgivings on the part of the Appointed Members, that the whole urban area should be divided into 20 separate wards. We would like that to be reduced to 10, so that we may work in pairs with our Elected colleagues and thus protect the public interests at any cost. (Laughter). Sir, these in fact are my thoughts and I am quite sure that in some way I am also representing the thinking of my colleagues on this side of the table. We do agree with you that this is an important measure and I am inclined to agree with you also, Sir, that no legislation need be introduced. It is merely a matter of the Standing Committee of the Whole Council agreeing on dividing the spoils for territorial responsibility and then appointing two Members for each particular district. If we were to consider this matter not as a political gimmick by eliminating the term "ward system" and introducing instead territorial responsibility, then perhaps there should be no misgivings anywhere in Hong Kong.
MR. BERNACCHI:-On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I would ask my friend Mr. SALES to withdraw the word "spoils".
MR. SALES-Sir, we at least have no doubt that we are indeed considering the functional responsibility in a territorial concept. Whether we use the term "spoils" or not, it matters not because the term was not used in relation to Mr. BERNACCHI's earlier remarks but merely in absolute sense of the spoils of victory.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, could Mr. SALES explain whether spoils in the sense that he has mentioned it, whether he meant that these were spoils of victory for the Appointed Members?
MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, could that question be reframed because I did not understand it and I do not think anybody else did. (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, I will reframe it for the benefit of Members, particularly Mr. SALES. In the context in which he used the word "spoils" did he have in mind spoils of victory for the Appointed Members?
CHAIRMAN:-I am sure, Sir, Mr. SALES was not trying to be offensive in any way in using the word “spoils”.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, since when have the Chairman of the Urban Council and the Appointed Members joined hands together to oppose us? (Laughter).
MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, may I have it recorded that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN has expressed surprise that you have sided with us instead of siding with him. (Laughter).
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DR. LEE-If no other Members wish to speak I would like to reply. I think the Chairman has brought up two points which require clarification. In my own mind it does not require any legislative procedure to demarcate these areas. It is really an informal distribution of the districts, and each district is represented by a Member. As regards office space, two districts can share one office, and to overcome Mr. SALES' objection of having Elected Members becoming kings or queens of the areas, we could have an office shared by one Elected Member and one Appointed Member. With regard to staff, the minimum I think that is required is a secretary, an office boy, a telephone, and then subsidiary expenditure which does not amount to very much. These details which were mentioned in my opening speech when moving the motion could, I think, best be left for discussion at a later date. We could then iron them out. The main thing before the Council now is to pass the motion, so I desire to have the question put.
CHAIRMAN:-The motion which has been proposed and seconded is : "That this Council should adopt a ward system for Hong Kong and Kowloon and that each ward should be represented by an Urban Councillor." (To Mr. SALES) Sir, the motion has not been amended.
MR. SALES: Sir, I thought Dr. LEE had accepted that?
DR. LEE: It is only a question of sharing an office for two Councillors.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Dr. LEE said "in working it out".
MR. SALES-If the term "an" is part of the motion, Sir, then it should be substituted by "two". With Dr. LEE's permission and the seconder's permission, no amendment is needed if they were to amend themselves.
DR. LEE:-Mr. Chairman, could Mr. SALES please elaborate?
MR. SALES: If the motion specifically says that each ward should be represented by one Urban Councillor, then the Standing Committee of the Whole Council would be bound by that. I do not want to move an amendment and I leave it to Dr. LEE himself to re-word his motion.
DR. LEE:-Mr. Chairman, I would like to amend my motion in this way:
That this Council should adopt a ward system for Hong Kong and Kowloon and that each ward should be represented by one or more Urban Councillors.
MR. WILFRED WONG:-I would second that amendment.
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