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Sir DONALD MACLEAN: The hon. Lady says what troubled her most was the complacency of the reports. What troubles me most is the complacency of the Under-Secretary. My right hon. Friend's speech was a perfect model of moderation, clarity and accuracy. have been a long time in the House and I have never heard a better chance given by anyone who spoke on a subject of this kind to a Minister to give an answer of the kind that the majority of the Com- mittee expected him to give. I never saw a more complete failure.
I am sorry
to speak as strongly as this, but I feel strongly. I had not the slightest inten- tion of taking any part in the Debate when I came into the House, but those who listened to my right hon. Friend's speech, to whatever party they belonged, were moved by his recital of those ter- rible facts, all the more forcible because they concealed things which he did not mention. They must have felt in their hearts that, whatever may be the moral convictions of the Chinese, whatever may the difficulties of the Governor, what- ever may be the feelings of those who know how difficult it is for Governors to act under exceptionally difficult condi- tions, the feeling of the Committee I am sure I speak it--is that this thing must stop.
Complacent statements by Under- Secretaries will not stop the rising tide of public opinion in this country which has been deeply moved, as I believe the Committee has been to-night, and is de- termined that mere official answers, such as we have received, will in no way pre- vent proper, definite, swift action.
What is happening in Hong Kong to- day We know that there are thousands of these children living in conditions of slavery. I do not mind if the Under- Secretary gives dozens of official reports from Governors. The real answer is con- tained in those daily papers. I will read again what the "Hong Kong Daily Press "
says. The date is 23rd March, 1931, not more than six weeks ago. It Bays:
"It is a curious thing that some English people who know a lot about Hong Kong should have sympathy with this form of slavery. There is no disguising the fact that the mui-tsai is a slave. She is transferred from her natural parents to another family on payment of money, and becomes the pro- perty of her purchaser, subject to the ordinary law of the land, and certain con-
Colonial Office,
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ventions about her marriage on reaching a certain age.
Under British law the trans- action is null and void."
As the Under-Secretary of State knows, slavery in a Crown colony is null and void, and there is nothing legal about it. It the effect that troubles the
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Committee:
A girl so disposed of can return to her parents, and her parents can claim her any time they like,"
and so on.
That is the law. I may have wearied the Committee by repeating the quotation, but it is the essence of the whole case.
"That is the law, but law and social custom do not coincide."
From what is happening in Hong Kong to-day, there is slavery.
Mr. SANDHAM: There is slavery here, and plenty of it.
Sir D. MACLEAN: It says further:
The real as apart from the canting de- fence of the system is that you can get the services of a young girl (and absolute power over her person) at a dirt cheap rate. It is a good business proposition."
"
That is the fact. We all know it to be the case. Another newspaper practically confirms that view in so many words. I the was informed through the "Times other day that the Central Government of China made a very fine attempt to abolish the whole of the system in China itself. I know that it is nothing more than a gesture, but it is a very fine one, and shows what is happening in China. What is happening in China may be the first feeble step towards freedom for millions of those slaves, and it will be mutually assisted if the real voice of the Committee and of this House is heard in Hong Kong. I repeat that it is the deter- mination of this Committee, right through the House of Commons, and, I believe, right through the country, that in this Crown colony, which is Britain abroad, the scandal of this form of slavery ought to be stopped.
Mr. SANDHAM: What about the Black and Tans!
An HON. MEMBER: Shut up!
Mr. SANDHAM: Like you.
The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN: I must ask the hon. Member for Kirkdale (Mr. Sandham) to curb his remarks.
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Mr. CAMPBELL: We ought to be very grateful to the right hon. and learned Member for Spen Valley (Sir J. Simon) for having raised this matter to-night, so that we may have an opportunity of discussing it fully, instead of only by way of question and answer. The facts which the right hon. Gentleman has given to the House, and which have not been con- tradicted in the main by the Under- Secretary, are very enlightening and very disturbing. Those of us who know China and the Chinese will realise that the Chinese, whether rightly or wrongly, are a very conservative race, and that the Governor who, it has been suggested, demurred to the instructions given to him, was doing so from his knowledge of the fact that such an edict was very difficult to bring into force in Chinese territory. He is, as we know, a man who knows the Chinese and the language of the Chinese, and I am sorry that the hon. Lady who made a speech earlier in the Debate rather laughed at the fact of a Governor taking the trouble to go and visit houses where such things take place. It is the custom of the Governor in any Colony or State to pay a visit and see things for himself. That is so with most Colonies and with most Governors. These Governors generally make practice of learning the language of the country in which they reside, and so their visits are of great effect, and are looked upon sympathetically.
а
Mr. McSHANE: The point of the hon. Lady's speech was not against the Governor making inspections per se, but that they should be regarded as in some way sufficient inspections.
Mr. CAMPBELL: am within the re- collection of the Committee, and I am only suggesting that the hon. Lady was not correct in thinking that such a visit was not appreciated and was of no use, for though the Governor must have his official inspectors, he wants to know for himself exactly what is going on-the more especially as hon. Members like the right hon. Gentleman and others, includ- ing myself, have asked questions in the House. The Governor, having issued his instructions, wishes to see that they are properly carried out, I want to emphasise that this is not a political question at all, and the less we talk about politics in a matter of this sort the better. We want to give Hong Kong the
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united opinion not only of this Parlia- ment, but of this country, and we want Hong Kong to know that we look upon mui-tsai as a scandal which has to be stopped. The Government have, accord- ing to the Under-Secretary, taken strong steps to see that their instructions are carried out by the Governor and the authorities in Hong Kong. I am per- fectly sure our
to duty to-day is strengthen the hands of the Government by saying, speaking for the country, that we intend to see this scandal, as we call it, wiped out, and the sooner the better. A Debate of this description will be passed on to Hong Kong, and they will see that there has not been one Member in this House who has taken exception to the remarks of the right hon. Gentleman, and they will realise that, while we have sympathy for the difficulties of the authorities in Hong Kong, we hold ourselves up as being a people who are against all forms of slavery.
Only this afternoon we had a Debate about another place where there is so- called slavery. It would not be right that while we condemn other parts of the world for slave labour, we should allow such a system to be carried on in one of our own Colonies. I have been very dis- turbed over the whole affair and have felt that the Government have not been The strong enough in their action. speech of the Under-Secretary had been prepared before he had heard the speech of my right hon. and learned Friend, otherwise it would doubtless have been couched in other terms. We must, how- ever, realise that the Government are as much alive to the difficulty of the posi- tion and the necessity of effecting a cure, as any of us. If that is the case, and if the Under-Secretary tells us that the Colonial Secretary is determined that the instructions which he has issued will be carried out in every detail by the autho- rities in Hong Kong, we can look for- ward to the not far distant future when the system which we all deplore will come to an end. We are grateful to the right hon. Member for Spen Valley (Sir J. Simon) for the interest that he has taken in this matter and for arousing the in- terest of the House. Before the dinner hour the House was almost empty, and we now see it occupied by many hon. Members who are deeply interested in
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